Welcome, Guest

Author Topic: Oxalic Vapor disaster  (Read 8097 times)

Offline JWChesnut

  • House Bee
  • **
  • Posts: 230
Oxalic Vapor disaster
« on: December 09, 2010, 06:40:27 PM »
I vapor treated a 2 deep hive with approx 2 grams (two 1/2 inch end cap measures) of Oxalic Acid-- Hardware store wood bleach brand.  My vapor is created in a copper pipe slowly heated with a propane torch.  Vapor was introduced via a reduced entrance cleat, and hive was fumigated for 10 min by closing the cleat with paper towelling.  Hive is in sunny coastal California, mid 50's F. on day of treatment, upper 30's at night

Two days out I have approximately 50% of the hive dead on my Screen Bottom Board. I only have about 2 covered frames. Uncertain on the queen.

Anyone else have major die-off of this scale from 2 gram fumigations.

I have minimal experience with Oxalic, and was not expecting this outcome.  What did I do wrong?


Offline Michael Bush

  • Universal Bee
  • *******
  • Posts: 14630
  • Gender: Male
    • bushfarms.com
Re: Oxalic Vapor disaster
« Reply #1 on: December 10, 2010, 08:48:46 AM »
That sounds about right for two deeps.  Maybe you sealed it up too well... I don't know.  I have not heard of such a bad outcome from the proper amount, and that sounds about right from my memory.
Michael Bush
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm en espanol: bushfarms.com/es_bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
-------------------
"Everything works if you let it."--Rick Nielsen

Offline hardwood

  • Galactic Bee
  • ******
  • Posts: 3482
  • Gender: Male
  • Alysian Apiaries youtube.com/MrBeedude
Re: Oxalic Vapor disaster
« Reply #2 on: December 10, 2010, 09:04:12 AM »
1gram per box (deep) is the usual dose so it looks like you did well there. I'm wondering if your OA is pure? I've never had that happen to me.

Scott
"In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person's becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag...We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language...And we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."

Theodore Roosevelt 1907

Offline Scadsobees

  • Galactic Bee
  • ******
  • Posts: 3198
  • Gender: Male
  • Best use of smileys in a post award.
Re: Oxalic Vapor disaster
« Reply #3 on: December 10, 2010, 09:14:18 AM »
I didn't have that particular problem, but I did one year kill 4 out of 5 queens by doing that.   :roll:

Somehow, will never know what I did wrong, cuz I won't do it again.
Rick

Offline Robo

  • Technical
  • Administrator
  • Galactic Bee
  • *******
  • Posts: 6497
  • Gender: Male
  • Beekeep On!
    • Robo's World
Re: Oxalic Vapor disaster
« Reply #4 on: December 10, 2010, 10:02:22 AM »
2 grams for 2 deeps is correct. Please don't take this the wrong way,  but are you confident you used 2 grams?   I know grams can be challenging at times.   Two grams fits in a 1/2" copper cap.




It has been years since I vaporized, but I never had any major die off when I did.
"Opportunity is missed by most people because it comes dressed in overalls and looks like work." - Thomas Edison



Offline danno

  • Super Bee
  • *****
  • Posts: 2283
  • Gender: Male
Re: Oxalic Vapor disaster
« Reply #5 on: December 10, 2010, 10:32:23 AM »
I vapor treated a 2 deep hive with approx 2 grams (two 1/2 inch end cap measures) of Oxalic Acid-- Hardware store wood bleach brand.  My vapor is created in a copper pipe slowly heated with a propane torch.  Vapor was introduced via a reduced entrance cleat, and hive was fumigated for 10 min by closing the cleat with paper towelling.  Hive is in sunny coastal California, mid 50's F. on day of treatment, upper 30's at night

Two days out I have approximately 50% of the hive dead on my Screen Bottom Board. I only have about 2 covered frames. Uncertain on the queen.


Anyone else have major die-off of this scale from 2 gram fumigations.

I have minimal experience with Oxalic, and was not expecting this outcome.  What did I do wrong?



2- 1/2 ends caps would be a double dose

Offline Robo

  • Technical
  • Administrator
  • Galactic Bee
  • *******
  • Posts: 6497
  • Gender: Male
  • Beekeep On!
    • Robo's World
Re: Oxalic Vapor disaster
« Reply #6 on: December 10, 2010, 10:42:54 AM »
good catch danno, I missed that.
"Opportunity is missed by most people because it comes dressed in overalls and looks like work." - Thomas Edison



Offline deknow

  • Field Bee
  • ***
  • Posts: 785
  • Gender: Male
    • Golden Rule Honey, LLC
Re: Oxalic Vapor disaster
« Reply #7 on: December 10, 2010, 11:02:40 AM »
please post a photo of the label on the acid you used.

deknow

Offline JWChesnut

  • House Bee
  • **
  • Posts: 230
Re: Oxalic Vapor disaster
« Reply #8 on: December 10, 2010, 05:29:02 PM »
Oxalic source was
Savogran
Oxalic Acid Wood Bleach
Norwood, Mass 02062

in a 12 ounce plastic container



Offline Robo

  • Technical
  • Administrator
  • Galactic Bee
  • *******
  • Posts: 6497
  • Gender: Male
  • Beekeep On!
    • Robo's World
Re: Oxalic Vapor disaster
« Reply #9 on: December 10, 2010, 06:41:20 PM »
That is the same brand I used.  It was a while ago, so it doesn't mean it hasn't changed though
"Opportunity is missed by most people because it comes dressed in overalls and looks like work." - Thomas Edison



Offline BjornBee

  • Galactic Bee
  • ******
  • Posts: 3775
  • Gender: Male
Re: Oxalic Vapor disaster
« Reply #10 on: December 10, 2010, 08:02:08 PM »
What did I do wrong?



I vapor treated......


You need an explanation.  :shock:

   ;)
www.bjornapiaries.com
www.pennapic.org
Please Support "National Honey Bee Day"
Northern States Queen Breeders Assoc.  www.nsqba.com

Offline alfred

  • House Bee
  • **
  • Posts: 420
  • Gender: Male
    • Alfred's Massage
Re: Oxalic Vapor disaster
« Reply #11 on: December 17, 2010, 11:47:04 AM »
What about the pipe? Did it have anything else in it or on it? did you use something to glue the joints?

Offline Michael Bush

  • Universal Bee
  • *******
  • Posts: 14630
  • Gender: Male
    • bushfarms.com
Re: Oxalic Vapor disaster
« Reply #12 on: December 17, 2010, 09:12:56 PM »
I only used the pipe, and only used vapor when I used Oxalic and it was very effective against mites and had no noticeable side effects.  I'm sure, however, that it upset the microbial balance of the hive, but this does not seem to be what you experienced.
Michael Bush
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm en espanol: bushfarms.com/es_bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
-------------------
"Everything works if you let it."--Rick Nielsen

Offline cam

  • House Bee
  • **
  • Posts: 104
  • Gender: Male
    • circle 7 honey
Re: Oxalic Vapor disaster
« Reply #13 on: January 11, 2011, 03:53:16 PM »
I used the same brand of OA, but used a commercial vaporizer on my hives. No losses.
circle7 honey and pollination

Offline hahunltd

  • New Bee
  • *
  • Posts: 2
Re: Oxalic Vapor disaster
« Reply #14 on: January 31, 2011, 10:30:57 AM »
In research they used up to 5 grams with no loss I think 10 minutes is to long. The research I've read said 2 or 3 minutes.I also wonder if the bees had another issue. I've treated over 100 hives and no die off.

Offline cam

  • House Bee
  • **
  • Posts: 104
  • Gender: Male
    • circle 7 honey
Re: Oxalic Vapor disaster
« Reply #15 on: January 31, 2011, 04:26:43 PM »
I actually keep my hives closed up for 15 minutes. Haven't had a problem.
circle7 honey and pollination

Offline rwurster

  • House Bee
  • **
  • Posts: 86
Re: Oxalic Vapor disaster
« Reply #16 on: October 28, 2012, 03:35:15 AM »
What is the concentration of the oxalic acid that is typically used when treating hives?  I purchased some which is 100% oxalic acid by weight.
Zone 5a @ 4700 ft. High Desert
Facebook Link

Offline Robo

  • Technical
  • Administrator
  • Galactic Bee
  • *******
  • Posts: 6497
  • Gender: Male
  • Beekeep On!
    • Robo's World
Re: Oxalic Vapor disaster
« Reply #17 on: October 28, 2012, 08:32:43 AM »
That is the right stuff.
"Opportunity is missed by most people because it comes dressed in overalls and looks like work." - Thomas Edison



Offline rwurster

  • House Bee
  • **
  • Posts: 86
Re: Oxalic Vapor disaster
« Reply #18 on: October 28, 2012, 11:34:20 AM »
Good, thanks.  We've been having really hard frosts lately so it won't be too long until the hives are broodless and I can actually administer the vapor.
Zone 5a @ 4700 ft. High Desert
Facebook Link

Offline saperica

  • House Bee
  • **
  • Posts: 61
  • Gender: Male
Re: Oxalic Vapor disaster
« Reply #19 on: October 28, 2012, 11:47:44 AM »
temperature too high and OA vapor too fast and too hot, when vaporazing OA you have a FA ina a smoke, CO2 olso so maybe you unfortunatley put in a anestezia you bees. dr.Bogdanov says that maximum amount for safe treatman whit OA is a 5g for a 2 depp box of a LR hive. detail is on this site http://www.agroscope.admin.ch/imkerei/00316/00329/02081/index.html?lang=de . i use a OA vaporizer on a car battery.
it have 2 nice articles about OA vaporizing on bottom is advantage of sublimation and 7nt from bottom is paper that says that not all vaporizing tehniques have good resoult.

 

anything