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Author Topic: Let's talk nectar sources.  (Read 4495 times)
Finski
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« Reply #20 on: November 20, 2010, 03:08:21 PM »

.
But 50 hives in one place is surely too much. Out of mind.

There  are researches that bees go to nearest flowers.. They do not know that 200 m away there are flowers full of nectar.

When it has been researched rape fields, bees pollination is not even in whole field. It maybe some direction and only some area.

High hive density is used when the farmer is making F1 seeds.
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Tony G.
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« Reply #21 on: November 20, 2010, 05:00:28 PM »

Ha David,
I'm on the east side of Fayetteville and have several sourwood trees around plus the bees were all over the sumac when it bloomed. To help I planted several strips of buckwheat in mid-summer at about 3 week intervals.

tg
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rdy-b
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« Reply #22 on: November 20, 2010, 05:30:03 PM »

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But 50 hives in one place is surely too much. Out of mind.

There  are researches that bees go to nearest flowers.. They do not know that 200 m away there are flowers full of nectar.


 Bees go to what is the best pay day--nectar source with highest sugar content --they pass up some floral sources in order to reach the source they seak--personally i believe 1 mile is where bees concentrate for the SURPLUS to be made--but i know you already know this is true-- cheesy  RDY-B
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Finski
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« Reply #23 on: November 20, 2010, 05:57:22 PM »

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you are just wrong.

You personally believe ... I can't help then...
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BjornBee
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« Reply #24 on: November 20, 2010, 06:18:58 PM »

Bees do pass up some flowers to concentrate on other higher quality nectar sources. In fact, there is a certain amount of competition among foragers within the hive, and different small variations of the waggle dance when it comes to quality and the amount of "selling" one bee performs when it comes to what nectar is better than the others. And when a higher quality nectar source is found, a higher number of forages will be gathered to this location.

You may always have scouts bringing back and discovering new nectar sources. Then they come back and go through the process again. Studies have shown that most of any one colony will be recruited to one particular flower source, especially when is comes to higher sugar content of certain flower sources. Bees do not work anywhere they just happen upon. They are recruited by scout forages who come back and bees know which are better choices.

Sorry finski...I think...no make that...I know you have it wrong.  Wink
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rdy-b
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« Reply #25 on: November 20, 2010, 06:59:10 PM »

.
you are just wrong.

You personally believe ... I can't help then...
  HA HA  cheesy everybody knows -flying over one mile -starts to burn as much energy (nectar)
as they are bringing back- cool no SURPLUS honey that trip-espcialy big hives they eat A LOT - Wink RDY-B
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Finski
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« Reply #26 on: November 21, 2010, 02:11:56 AM »

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Hah hah. I have read new researches what bees do on wide rape field.

Bees cannot optimize their foraging if hives has been migrated in wrong places.

But they are your hives and your yields. Do what you want. Just explain your self the 3-fold difference bee yards.

Everyone knows!  Sounds real knowledge from father to son.
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Finski
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« Reply #27 on: November 21, 2010, 02:29:25 AM »

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Bees are not so clever as many believe.

When you look foraging, it may be 5 bees per square metre. In these cases flowers are not fast enough to excrecete nectar.

Rasberry is so atractive that near hives a bee comes into flower every 10 seconds to suck nectar. Do you think that they get stomach full.

When rasberry blooms 8 kg add daily are not rare in the hive on balance. Top incomes were 15 kg daily last summer per hive. It means that flowers are full of nectar, vast bloomming areas and very short flyinf distance. Bees fly from flower to flower and it is the biggest job.

Then I can follow returning bees. Do they fly abdomen hanging or abdomen slim. Slim means that they are obliged to fly over dry forest and nursed fields and they get a load very far away.

If you get 100 kg capped yield in 3 weeks, then you may say to me hah hah. I will stand it.
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rdy-b
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« Reply #28 on: November 21, 2010, 02:37:12 AM »


On variable pastures I get maximum yield when I put 2-4 hives in one point. Hives give easily about 100 kg per hive but all sites or hives are not so succesfull. Things hapens.


The distance. .....efficient surplus distance is under one kilometre. If the rape fiels is 1,5 far away, 50% of yield will be losed.
Dry sandy and cliffy soils are worst. Bees need warm and dry soils suffer easily lack of water.
We have tens of hectars fireweed in dry forest areas but it is better stay out of there.

sometimes it is beter to NOT go for VARIABLE PASTURES-select prmium nectar locations- cool RDY-B
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Finski
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« Reply #29 on: November 21, 2010, 09:40:39 AM »


sometimes it is beter to NOT go for VARIABLE PASTURES-select prmium nectar locations- cool RDY-B

Like in stocks, invest only in best stocks.
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bugleman
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« Reply #30 on: November 21, 2010, 12:38:33 PM »

David,

I think you're right about showing up cold at his front door telling him not to spray is crops.  a shotgun may be involved.
 

The days of ignorance are passing.  There is strict rules regarding the application of pestisides.  Being a good neighbor and discussing concerns is healthy for our community.  Fear has no place.
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Joelel
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« Reply #31 on: November 21, 2010, 01:27:46 PM »

http://ohioline.osu.edu/hyg-fact/2000/2168.html
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38: Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39: For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
40: And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation
Finski
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« Reply #32 on: November 21, 2010, 01:52:00 PM »



Very interesting list. Some interesting details.

At least here bees are higly interested to forage  clover pollen.
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Hemlock
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« Reply #33 on: November 21, 2010, 02:06:48 PM »

I think you're right about showing up cold at his front door telling him not to spray is crops.  a shotgun may be involved.

The days of ignorance are passing.  There is strict rules regarding the application of pestisides.  Being a good neighbor and discussing concerns is healthy for our community.  Fear has no place.

Ignorance!?...

Listen junior
All I'm saying is it's probably not a great idea to walk up to a farmer you've never met before and start telling him his business because you have a couple of hives your worried about!

Try reading the whole comment before your knee jerks you out of your chair next time.  You missed the part where i suggest he involves himself with the farming community.  He could learn about their cultural practices while promoting Beekeeping.

Strict Pesticide rules? - I've carried a State Pesticide License in 5 states now.  That's why I recommend working with the Extension Service & the Farmers.  They all mostly do the same thing from year to year.  Why bring only one guy on board when you could make lots of friends instead.

Fear!? - What are you talking about?...
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Finski
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« Reply #34 on: November 22, 2010, 02:21:58 AM »

Pollination management for canola in Australia
http://www.rirdc.gov.au/programs/established-rural-industries/pollination/canola.cfm

There are a number of factors within the field which have a direct bearing on the pollination efficiency of honey bees:

Crop layout

•Pasture layout and blossom density: Canola is a broadacre crop planted generally in large open paddocks.  
•Access:  From a beekeeper's point of view, all-weather truck access is highly desirable. Limited access may lead to an increased workload for the beekeeper, uneven placement of hives and thus inefficient pollination.

Density of bees  
Results showed an improvement in seed yield of 46% in the presence of three honey bee hives per hectare, compared with the absence of hives(Sabbahi et al. 2005).  Further information from Canada indicates the need for larger numbers of bees hives for the pollination of hybrid canola seed, where stocking rates of six hives per hectare have been reported (Somerville 2002).  These higher stocking rates may reduce honey produced by as much as 75% as the main aim is to maximise seed production (Somerville 2002). a normal stocking rate for honey production was stated as 0.5 hives/hectare for non- hybrid canola varieties (Somerville 2002).

Arrangement of hives  

Manning and Wallis (2005) found that the beneficial effects of honey bee foraging declined after a distance of 200m from an apiary site consisting of 100 hives.  While Somerville (2002) suggests that honey bees will travel several kilometres to forage on canola.

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Finski
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« Reply #35 on: November 22, 2010, 02:32:06 AM »

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Foraging distances

Average distance is about one mile.

Pollen is foraged too from vast area

http://rspb.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/270/1515/569.full.pdf

How to use it?

Our farming landscape is changing all the time. Now we use wide safe belt around small rivers that soil and nutrients does not go into water. Former these has been cattle pastures. Now they grow only hay.

I am going to plant to those zones bee plants. It is not my land but however. The most productive is raspberry. It speads with its roots and gives nectar nex year. Farmers hate willows. I am going to plant "low profile willows" too into safe belts.  Low profile means that it is not easy to notice.

There are some good plants which survive inside hay areas: Centaurea jacea, Epilobium angustifolium, Trifolium medium, Stellaria holostea
« Last Edit: November 22, 2010, 02:54:51 AM by Finski » Logged

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tecumseh
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« Reply #36 on: November 22, 2010, 06:35:38 AM »

finiski writes:
But 50 hives in one place is surely too much. Out of mind.

tecumseh:
I am not certain about the bloom in Finland but there are place here where 60 hives to a yard is pretty much standard operating procedure.  those places I was personally familar with could produce 60 to 80 kg of surplus in a season... in the very best of years perhaps 100 kg of surplus.

There are other places where I have kept bees that would not support (ie 0 surplus) 2 hives at a location.
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Finski
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« Reply #37 on: November 22, 2010, 09:28:30 AM »


I am not certain about the bloom in Finland but there are place here where 60 hives to a yard is pretty much standard operating procedure. .


That research was from Australia.

But if it standard, you keep your hives in 50 hives punch.

We have  a standard 10 hives in one place. That same figure was 80 years ago and still valid figure.
Problem is that pastures have changed totally and hives are 4 times bigger than 80 years ago.


It is same with rape. 50 years ago standard was 4 hives per hectar and it is still the same and hives are 3 times bigge now.

Australian have critical attitude against those "standards".  I just told my opinion and you keep those 50 hives in one punch and get 100 kg per hive.  I wonder how you get 5000 kg honey from  one point.


But your average yields are far from 100 kg or even 100 pounds
http://outdoorplace.org/beekeeping/honey1.htm
Honey production in 2004 from producers with five or more colonies
totaled 184 million pounds, up 1 percent from 2003.  There were 2.56
million colonies producing honey in 2004, down 2 percent from 2003.
Yield per colony averaged 71.8 pounds, up 3 percent from the 69.9 pounds
in 2003.  


 
But do beekeepers tell the truth about their yields. Not at least in my country. The truth for tax collectors is something. No one can earn his living with such figures.
How many hives ... I have not calculated.

In eastern Europe hives have vanished but they have not been calculated ever.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2010, 09:51:06 AM by Finski » Logged

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Finski
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« Reply #38 on: November 22, 2010, 09:53:10 AM »

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if you have 700 hives, the kilo price is 2$ and the yield  35 kilos, who runs business with that and drive a truck?

700 x 35 x 2 = 49 000 $

Pollinating service is often the main money source.
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latebee
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« Reply #39 on: November 22, 2010, 10:20:42 AM »

latebee,

Are you talking about Pear (Pyrus communis) or Bradford Pear (pyrus calleryana).   The bees love common wild Pear (P. communis).  Whether they're on it for the pollen or nectar i don't yet know. 
        I am referring to pears other than the ornamental Bradford(which by the way bears no fruit) pear.
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