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Author Topic: newbee needing advice  (Read 1481 times)
allenrs
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« on: November 16, 2010, 05:07:14 PM »

I live in north Alabama,north of huntsville.I am getting my first 2 hives in feburary and I want to go with foundationless frames in th brood boxes and use pierco plastic fouundation in the honey super's with a queen excluder of course.I need to see if this is done by anybody and I also would like to know when I should add the second brood chamber.I really need all the advise I can get so I won't be guilty of killing my girls.thank you in advance.
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hardwood
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« Reply #1 on: November 16, 2010, 05:28:32 PM »

Why not go foundationless throughout? If you're concerned about extraction issues you might want to go with wood frames and plasticell foundation. The one piece plastic frames have lots of great hiding places for SHB.

Scott
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"In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person's becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag...We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language...And we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."

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kathyp
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« Reply #2 on: November 16, 2010, 05:53:59 PM »

when you do get to honey super time, do not put the excluder on until the honey supers are drawn out.  if you do, they will avoid them and cram everything into the brood boxes...then swarm.  you may also find that you want to skip the excluders.  some use them.  some don't . 

read up on here about plastic.  some people have had problems with it....and again, some don't. 
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

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AllenF
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« Reply #3 on: November 16, 2010, 07:26:01 PM »

Are you getting hives, nucs, or packages in Feb.?  I don't think a package on foundationless frames in Feb. will work.   You will be feeding until April when the bloom starts. 
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allenrs
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« Reply #4 on: November 16, 2010, 07:44:16 PM »

I could just wait and try going foundationless in 2012 or 2013,no rush.but I really like the idea of wood frames with plastic foundation.I just want to try everything all at once and I know that ain't good.As for the extracting i will crush and strain until i am confidant enough about what i am doing.thats for the help.
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kathyp
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« Reply #5 on: November 16, 2010, 08:22:12 PM »

after you have read everything and asked all the questions you can think of, try making a 1st year plan.  equipment, goals, etc.  the plan will not survive your first year, but it will help keep you on a kind of track as you figure things out  grin
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
Michael Bush
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« Reply #6 on: November 17, 2010, 10:28:05 AM »

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesoptions.htm
http://www.bushfarms.com/beesnewbees.htm

If you want plastic and you want natural sized cells, you might want to start with the Mann Lake PF100 or PF120s (4.95mm cell size) and then move into foundationless.  If you want to end up with natural sized cells I would NOT start out on large cell foundation, you will have wasted a full turnover where you could have gotten smaller from the start.

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesnaturalcell.htm#HowToRegress

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Bee Happy
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« Reply #7 on: November 17, 2010, 10:47:01 AM »

I did foundationless for my honey supers (too) and they just took the wax right down to the bottom of the frames and fastened it right on, I didn't use an extractor but all but a couple of the honeycombs were fastened on there good and solid, in fact I wish now I got with someone who had one to see if the blowout tolerances were about the same as the full foundation frames.
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kathyp
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« Reply #8 on: November 17, 2010, 11:08:57 AM »

i did about a dozen 10 frame shallows of foundationless this year.  didn't count, but figure the blow out rate was less than 10%  those were frames that had not been fully drawn, or had some funky comb.  the frames that were fully attached came through fine. the blowouts i put in the middle of the supers for next year.  we'll see how well they get repaired  smiley
i also blew out a couple that had foundation.  they were not well attached and not well drawn.  they were on the same hive and it's one of those that never seems to be able to draw comb straight.
 
this was with a hand crank.  don't know how they'd hold up in an electric. 
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #9 on: November 17, 2010, 11:26:01 AM »

The only electric I saw on video I could see for sure had a speed control in the circuit (speed controls are easy though, I could add one if needed) 10% sounds decent to me, I could see selling off the ones you could predict might blow out as chunk honey, or just crushing and straining (I could see how with a lot that could get tedious though).
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L Daxon
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« Reply #10 on: November 17, 2010, 12:40:58 PM »

This may seem silly to some but I used plastic in all my brood chambers and wood w/foundation in my supers (I use all medium equipment so I can easily switch frames around.)  I do that so I can tell which frames have ever been in use when chemicals or pest treatments were on the hive (the plastic brood frames) and which one would have been off the hive (the wood honey super frames) and thus never exposed to chemicals (by me) and thus good for honey production.

This year I am going to go foundationless in at least some honey supers.  This fall when I havested,  I cut out most of the comb but left a little 2-3 cell edge around all four sides of the frame.  I put the frames back in the hive to be cleaned up and left them for a while and the girls did a great job of starting to draw out the comb, until I had to take them off to treat for varroa mites.


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David McLeod
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« Reply #11 on: November 17, 2010, 06:57:13 PM »

This one kind of veered away from the original question of hiving a couple (I assume packages) in Febuary in Alabama on foundationless. Also when to add the second deep and supers, which will be plastic foundation. I sahll attempt to muddle through with my limited understanding.

Febuary could be a tough time as your main flow at that time (depending on early or late weather) will be maple or possibly dandelion in your area (mainly pollen). If you hive them at that time put them in one deep only and you are going to have to feed the heck out of them as they will have zero honey stores and they burn through the syrup building wax. Depending on pollen availability you may have to feed that or a supplement as well to get the brood fed as well. Now once installed the ladies should get right down to building wax, though if you experience a cold snap that may slow and they may cluster but generally in Bama at that time of year they are flying at least during the warm part of the day so they should be building comb for you. On foundationless you will need to monitor it regularly to make sure they get pointed in the right direction, catching cross comb early is easier to fix early than late. Make sure the boxes are level, especially side to side. Make your inspections quick and during the warmest part of the day at that time as well to prevent chilled brood. When they get the first two nice straight frames drawn you can insert an empty between the two drawn combs for a guide, repeat as needed, but do not move drawn frames with eggs/brood away from the center of the brood chamber or they will get chilled. By the time of fruit tree bloom you should have a full box of drawn comb and brood and depending on the strength of the bees you may add the second deep at this time or go straight to supers. Beware though the second deep may get some drone/honey stores cells at this time as they may be thinking swarm or honey or both. You'll have to make the call on that. Another possibility is to hold off putting the second deep on but pulling cull comb, if they have messed one up, or empty comb (if available) from the outside of the box and continue to insert empty frames into the center of the brood nest. You can save the comb you pulled out to add back with the second deep when you have enough to give them the new deep with some drawn comb to repeat the center of nest trick.
On the excluder, I would hold off putting it on (actually I wouldn't use it at all) until you have a good flow on to put the supers on. Let them draw out the supers before you insert the excluders. They tend to resist going through the wire so get them up and on drawn comb and working it before forcing them through the wire. Good luck!
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David McLeod
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« Reply #12 on: November 17, 2010, 07:07:06 PM »

BTW, a special note on the plastic. It should only go on during a strong flow because if they ain't busy and in immediate need of drawn comb they tend to chew it down to the plastic and make a genral mees of things. Just one of many reasons why I do not like plastic. If your thinking plastic for extracting then consider wiring your frames. The ladies will build their comb right over the wires as if it were wired foundation and they should do just fine in the extractor. Just be careful with the speed as all new comb irregardless of what is at the center is more tender than older comb.
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Georgia Wildlife Services,Inc
Georgia's Full Service Wildlife Solution
Atlanta (678) 572-8269 Macon (478) 227-4497
www.atlantawildliferemoval.net
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rdy-b
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« Reply #13 on: November 17, 2010, 07:19:29 PM »

  what works for me is start the package in a deep-once frames are drawn and brood is being reard-add excluder-then add second deep--once the second box is full of honey --then harvest it --use the drawn comb from that deep of honey for your
second brood box-there will be enough time for the bees to ready the two deeps for wintering-when spring comes you can split and double your numbers--this is how i like to start packages with new frames-puts you ahead of the curve-and you dont miss the flow first year out--RDY-B
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David McLeod
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« Reply #14 on: November 17, 2010, 07:33:19 PM »

Wow, a full deep of honey. You do believe in breaking in the new guy. evil
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Georgia Wildlife Services,Inc
Georgia's Full Service Wildlife Solution
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www.atlantawildliferemoval.net
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rdy-b
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« Reply #15 on: November 17, 2010, 07:55:25 PM »

Wow, a full deep of honey. You do believe in breaking in the new guy. evil
    Hopfuly it will be full-and the frames drawn--o and the bucket of honey will pay for the box and bees--RDY-B
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