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Author Topic: vote early  (Read 3201 times)
kathyp
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« Reply #20 on: November 04, 2010, 10:23:42 AM »

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so my hypothesis is correct (via Kathyp and Iddee prior comments) that some folks really don't believe in democracy?  inevitable disqualifying this or that group becomes an essential part of maintaining control and power for a constantly shrinking base.

most of your post is the usual crap, but this was worth a shot.  i am not, and i don't think you can find in my posts that i am, in favor of limiting voting.  i would even restore voting rights to felons under certain circumstances.

while i'm very sure you did not mis-understand what i said, other might have.  to clarify:  American citizens have the right to vote.  they have the responsibility to be informed.  I do not encourage the beating of the bushes to get people voting who are to apathetic and uninformed to have gotten themselves out to vote.  i would also point out that the beating of the bushes usually results in a lot of uninformed and apathetic democrats being driven to the polls.  the democrat party might want to consider what that means about their party?

sorry about the video.  i assumed  you'd know the different between a Kenyon and a  Keynesian .  look up both words and maybe you won't be offended anymore.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #21 on: November 04, 2010, 10:27:54 AM »

If by Democracy, you mean letting one person vote numerous times under different names, as my post above, then no, I guess I don't. I would call that Acorn, not Democracy.
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Irwin
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« Reply #22 on: November 04, 2010, 04:36:46 PM »

Kathy iddee I don't know why you try with this one  evil
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kathyp
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« Reply #23 on: November 04, 2010, 04:42:45 PM »

something to do while i chug the first cup of coffee, and before going to the gym  grin 
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #24 on: November 04, 2010, 06:31:23 PM »

I enjoyed the video. As to rights,along comes responsibility.I know many people who vote that the only thing they know about the candidates is what they saw on tv ads the weeks before the elections.And that applies to local candidates too.
 And I also know we live in a republic,not a democracy.When people start depending on the government from the womb to the tomb,it is only a matter of time until society falls.
  But I reaaly think people should be voting with the right information,not their "feelings".
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kathyp
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« Reply #25 on: November 04, 2010, 07:32:17 PM »

my MIL is a good example.  dyed in the wool dem, except she wouldn't vote for Obama because he's black so she just didn't vote.  made all her decision on this election according to what the local rag recommended.  
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #26 on: November 04, 2010, 07:44:03 PM »

I don't have much of an argument about Whether adult, living, actual citizens have a right to vote, I think they do (even though I do think the most basic brain function assessment test would be a good idea)
the real problem I have is  - what kind of idiot defends the position that you don't need to show ID to vote?
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kathyp
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« Reply #27 on: November 04, 2010, 08:12:42 PM »

and it hasn't always been like that.  i have voted in several states.  back in the day, you not only had to show some id, but you had to prove you lived in the precinct you were voting in.  usually something like a drivers license and a utility bill were good. 
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #28 on: November 04, 2010, 08:42:29 PM »

and it hasn't always been like that.  i have voted in several states.  back in the day, you not only had to show some id, but you had to prove you lived in the precinct you were voting in.  usually something like a drivers license and a utility bill were good. 
Florida, at least in my tiny district, requires the ID, even though the woman who owns the store I go to every day is one of the poll workers and knows me by name. I had to prove I lived in the district only when the election came after a move across town. (because I hadn't changed my license yet)
There's preventing discrimination (good) and stupid (bad)
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iddee
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« Reply #29 on: November 04, 2010, 10:11:27 PM »

Irwin, He is a very intelligent beekeeper. He only loses his mind when talking politics.  evil

TOUCHE', Tec........... grin
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"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

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kathyp
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« Reply #30 on: November 04, 2010, 10:45:51 PM »

No one can be wrong about everything!:-)
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
bigbearomaha
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« Reply #31 on: November 05, 2010, 07:08:57 AM »

Every American Citizen has the Right to vote.

As individuals who are citizens, we have a responsibility to participate in the governing of our localities, states and federal government.

American citizens rights are removed and reduced all the time by their own actions.  such as being convicted of a felony and serving time.  People who are found by a judge to be unable to care for themselves have their "Rights" restricted" as well.

Having a right to vote and feeling a personal responsibility to participate in voting does not mean the same as forcing people to vote.

Then it is no longer a right but a mandate.

we already have too many state and federal government mandates causing problems.

America is the land of the free.  Freedom means the freedom to participate or not participate. The freedom to accumulate financial wealth if you so choose.  The freedom to pursue personal happiness in other forms if money isn't what does it for you.

We have to bear the consequences of our actions either way.



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tecumseh
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« Reply #32 on: November 05, 2010, 09:00:12 AM »

more name calling by the 'lady'... nothing much there I would guess?

back to a conversation with with my bro iddee..

iddee wrote:
Not only an IQ test, Tec, but a physical test also.

The IQ test could consist of "What day of the week is this".

The physical could be "Use a fork to pick this item of food up".

If they can't pass those tests, they don't vote.

tecumseh:
so if the US did have a person who looked and thought like Stephen Hawkins it would be ok with you if the government refused them the right to vote? 

and just to refresh some folks thinking... it was not I who presented the idea that voting should be required.  and just to inform my fellow citizens I have not taken the rhetorical position (generally never do*) that requiring political participation in the form of voting was a good idea.  I did suggest that if elections were important wouldn't we act like they were?   

and I do think you are somewhat confusing the conversation here yourself Iddee.  most time I simply toss out difficult question which some folks that choose to be misinformed (and pass this misinformation on to others as 'the truth') would rather not ask nor consider.  their over the top responses (and name calling by some) does tells some of us quite a lot.

*I don't have any hesitancy (never had) to correct some folks projection of half truths or sound bites as 'the truth' to something that a bit more clearly reflect reality and/or what is actually known.

here in Texas we have a voter role and you present an ID or driver's licenses when you cue up to vote.  this system is pretty much the same in ALL the half dozen states I have lived in.




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kathyp
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« Reply #33 on: November 05, 2010, 11:40:05 AM »

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most of your post is the usual crap

now come on...be fair...i didn't call you a piece of crap.  only your post.

i know i'm going to kick myself for trying, but:
Quote
most time I simply toss out difficult question which some folks that choose to be misinformed
did you ever consider that you would be better received, and perhaps better understood, if you did not appear to be such an arrogant ..... 
whether you intend it or not, your tone ticks people off as soon as they read what you have written.  you can not teach, or influence opinion with arrogance.

and it's not just politics.  you have done it in your beekeeping posts.  sometimes attitude becomes habit without us being aware that it has.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
tecumseh
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« Reply #34 on: November 08, 2010, 08:12:38 AM »

more name calling, followed by quoting yourself... humm?

I would guess the misinformed could confuse knowledge plus experience with arrogance. 

You now seem to be building some kind of case for transferring you dislike of my little questions here over to the bee keeping forum.  Such small mindedness and demonizing 'the enemy' (got to have one of those right??) certainly fits the profile.

 
   
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I am 'the panther that passes in the night'... tecumseh.
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