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Author Topic: vote early  (Read 3215 times)
kathyp
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« on: November 01, 2010, 08:31:14 PM »

vote often.  oh wait....that's the other guys....  evil

anyway, remember to vote tomorrow.  many races will be close.......
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #1 on: November 01, 2010, 08:58:22 PM »

Close?   Do you think the lawyers have their bags packed ready to go tomorrow afternoon to drag it out?
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kathyp
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« Reply #2 on: November 01, 2010, 09:06:34 PM »

i think there are half a dozen that will be recounts,  including Washington state Rossi-Murray.  Rossi probably won the gov race a couple of years ago.  it was very close and many dead people were found to have risen and voted.  if the same people + the newly awakened (not dead) vote for him, i think he'll win, but it won't go uncontested.  there are several others that won't go without a fight, but this time they will fight.  they won't allow another Franken moment.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
AllenF
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« Reply #3 on: November 01, 2010, 09:17:56 PM »

Don't Washington state have a mail in vote, so the votes won't be counted until the end of the week?

With the dead voting, I know it is a problem.   That is one reason here in Georgia, they want you to show a picture ID to vote.   Just trying to make thing fair.   

I wonder what the vote would be like if we made voting required by law like a few other countries.  I know there are a lot of people out there that could care less about the vote, but if they were required to vote, maybe they would study the issues better?
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kathyp
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« Reply #4 on: November 01, 2010, 09:22:08 PM »

they do, and unlike Oregon, they can be counted as long as they are postmarked by election day.  in Oregon they have to be in by election day. 

look around you.  do you want some of the people you see to be required to vote!  i don't even like the vote by mail.  not only does it ruin that sense of community that one gets from going out to vote, but it is a great way to perpetrate vote fraud if you wish.  i don't like early voting and i don't like absentee voting except in cases where there is a really need.  you used to have to either be out of the country/state, or have a medical problem to get an absentee ballot.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
AllenF
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« Reply #5 on: November 01, 2010, 09:48:28 PM »

I can see what you are saying and can agree on it, but with the early voting/ absentee, there are a lot of use out there that work weird hours or demanding jobs where we can not set a time to vote.  I got 2 extra stops added to me today for tomorrow.  You can not complain about work these days.  I am hoping to get back in time.
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kathyp
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« Reply #6 on: November 01, 2010, 10:10:45 PM »

back in the day, employers used to make time for employees to go vote.  people went at lunch or on the way home from work.  people voted because they really wanted to, not because "there's nothing on TV so why not fill out a ballot?".  i know there are people who can't get to the polling place on voting day.  i don't have a problem with some accommodation being made for them, but this business of starting to vote a month early, and never having to leave your couch to vote, is pretty sad.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #7 on: November 01, 2010, 10:36:40 PM »

I voted last week. Can I vote again tomorrow?   huh   grin
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« Reply #8 on: November 02, 2010, 08:31:50 AM »

allen f writes:
I wonder what the vote would be like if we made voting required by law like a few other countries.  I know there are a lot of people out there that could care less about the vote, but if they were required to vote, maybe they would study the issues better?

tecumseh:
I agree with this idea 100%.

if it was really important wouldn't we organize the vote as if it were?  if it was really important then a system where anyone that did not vote was fined would seem to me to be socially beneficial.

evidently some folks (here) think that some folks are unworthy of having a vote or having their vote counted.  there seems to be a historical record of this kind of behavior by some people.

curiously enough this election will be a first in that foreign $ will have more influence than domestic $.  it must be more and more difficult for some folks to say 'activist court' without chuckling.
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kathyp
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« Reply #9 on: November 02, 2010, 10:06:29 AM »

Quote
if it was really important wouldn't we organize the vote as if it were?  if it was really important then a system where anyone that did not vote was fined would seem to me to be socially beneficial.

evidently some folks (here) think that some folks are unworthy of having a vote or having their vote counted

you have a talent for assumption.  maybe  you could explain how it's "socially beneficial" to force people to vote?

why would you force people to vote who do not want to participate?  there is a responsibility to be educated about what you are voting on.  it is not just a civic duty/right.  then there is that whole thing about the government forcing people to do things. 

we have a great example in our current government of what happens when people who would not normally be bothered to study issues and candidates, or to vote, are enticed to vote. 

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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #10 on: November 02, 2010, 10:11:54 AM »

I voted last week. Can I vote again tomorrow?   huh   grin

I just asked someone about this yesterday.

If they can not keep dead people off the voter rolls, how would they know if you sent in a form two weeks ago, then voted in the booth.

Sounds like a plan for next time..... grin
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iddee
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« Reply #11 on: November 02, 2010, 11:49:53 AM »

Tec, YES, I am one of those who think some people should not be allowed to vote.

Two years ago, in the polling place, a lady came in leading 3 men who were more or less staring into space. She would use a kleenex to wipe their slobers when they drooled. None of the 3 would stand in line unless she guided them back when they wandered. They voted, with her in the booth with them.

NOW, do you really believe they voted, or did she vote 4 times?
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"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

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AllenF
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« Reply #12 on: November 02, 2010, 04:57:41 PM »

But there is fine line in taking away the vote from somebody.   Don't forget just  100 years ago here in Georgia we passed a bunch of laws to keep people from voting.   Disfranchisement after the reconstruction era.  Same as most of the south.  I believe stupid people should not vote, but that ain't right to take away their rights. 
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« Reply #13 on: November 02, 2010, 05:48:16 PM »

If you can force people to vote,it's only a short step to force who they vote for.Do you really think the people of Iraq would have voted for Saddam over and over?
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« Reply #14 on: November 02, 2010, 05:53:27 PM »

I'm heading out to vote now,voting for change!!!     
CHANGE IT BACK THAT IS!!!!!!
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kathyp
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« Reply #15 on: November 02, 2010, 05:59:29 PM »

pretty slippery slope...

a citizen has the right to vote. better to have a few fraudulent votes than to mess with that.  however, with that right comes the responsibility to do your homework.  no one can force you to be informed, but no one should encourage you to vote if you don't bother to educate yourself.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
tecumseh
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« Reply #16 on: November 03, 2010, 08:22:00 AM »

kathyp writes:
you have a talent for assumption.  maybe  you could explain how it's "socially beneficial" to force people to vote?

tecumseh:
assumptions are baggage from my career as an economist.  most folks confuse the words presumption with assumption.. which seems to apply in your case?

explain... if we looked on voting as not only a privilege but as a responsibility then participation should be required.  I think??? the Aussie elections works on this basic idea.  I think??? the basic idea is if you don't vote you receive a fine.  Either you participate or you pay.. pretty simple idea. 

I would think that the less participation you have in an election this less reliable any election is in regards to measuring the true 'will of the people'?  quite obvious, at least to me, is there are any number of gimmicks that are purely designed to limit voter participation?

if election were really important would we hold these on a work day with a very limited number of hours to vote?  if election were really important would we even consider holding them in off years when participation is typically limited? 

it is good to note that one or two folks here now admit that they really don't believe in real democracy.  some folks it seems would rather political participation be constrained since 'the people' are never to be trusted.  most have bypassed the question (imagine that) that at this time foreign business interest now have more of a voice in this democracy than anyone on this board.

and to my brother iddee..
so you think some form of IQ test should be an essential part of qualifying a citizen to vote? (ps just a question, nothing more) 

having spent a good deal of my life in florida I would guess I recognized the possibility that 'snow birds' could potentially vote twice in every major election when I was about 14 years old.  I would also suggest that gaming election is nothing new... happened to my father about 70 years ago (no assumption or presumption there since they dug his absentee ballot out of a culvert). 

I still suspect (also highly related to my years spent in Florida) that there is likely more election fraud in absentee ballots than in any other method of voting.  It is just a much easier system to potentially corrupt than direct voting.

so to answer your prior question... if you did move back and forth to Florida during the season as most snow birds do then yes you could have voted again.



 
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iddee
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« Reply #17 on: November 03, 2010, 08:55:16 AM »

Not only an IQ test, Tec, but a physical test also.

The IQ test could consist of "What day of the week is this".

The physical could be "Use a fork to pick this item of food up".

If they can't pass those tests, they don't vote.

That should eliminate many democrats from voting...  evil  lau
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"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*
kathyp
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« Reply #18 on: November 03, 2010, 10:12:37 AM »

use the word i meant to use.  and i actually applies to you in more than one way.  

the importance of an election is not measured by the number of people who participate.  dragging uninformed and unmotivated people out to vote, does no give you a measure of the will of the people.  

i remember when Leno took pics of Hillary and Schumer to the streets of NY and asked people if they knew who they were.  it was amazing how many people couldn't even identify Hillary much less Schumer.....
now i realize that it's Leno and not meant to be taken seriously, but even if there were only a few like that, why would you want them to vote?  what would they vote for and on what grounds?  

you are an economist?  maybe you'll appreciate this.

Is Obama a Keynesian? Rally For Sanity, 10/30/10
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
tecumseh
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« Reply #19 on: November 04, 2010, 08:39:40 AM »

humm sounds pretty unconvincing Iddee.  I guess if we did remove the voting right of all those folks who are curently shooting themselves in the foot about 90% of all republican would be disqualified.  I guess you could get to the same results by enforcing an income threshold for voting.

kathyp writes:
you are an economist?

tecumseh:
perhaps looking up presumption and assumption might enlighten you a bit as to how the words convey different meaning?  you really don't know the diff, now do ya'?  being rude (even indirectly) simply makes you appear small and silly. 

the operational word in regards to my education and practice of economics is 'was'.  without a doubt some bad baggage you collect along life's highway you are forced to tote around until they plant you in the ground.

the video clip you provide has absolutely nothing to do with economics.  I can not image what motivated you presented it here. 

so my hypothesis is correct (via Kathyp and Iddee prior comments) that some folks really don't believe in democracy?  inevitable disqualifying this or that group becomes an essential part of maintaining control and power for a constantly shrinking base.  if past history is any measure of what might happen in the current time frame no person (smart, mentally challenged, rich or poor) gets a pass on having their rights tossed. 



 

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I am 'the panther that passes in the night'... tecumseh.
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