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Author Topic: interesting call  (Read 3014 times)
kathyp
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« on: October 20, 2010, 07:05:22 PM »

just got a call from a lady wanting bees removed from her front porch before Halloween.  on questioning her, i found out that the bees had been there "for a while" and that she had called some pest control companies.  they had refused to do the job and told her that killing honey bees was illegal.  of course, she had already sprayed and it hadn't worked.

i know it's not illegal.  don't know why the companies turned her down.  one was a large company that is nationally known.  i do know that i am getting calls from pest control companies and i wonder if there is some reason they are passing on the jobs? 

i wouldn't do a removal at this time of the year and i wouldn't do a hive that had been sprayed, but the call was kind of different.  and....the annual fall yellowjacket calls are coming in!
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #1 on: October 20, 2010, 07:11:26 PM »

Maybe it is just bad PR for the big companies to kill honey bees and they just say it is illegal.
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BjornBee
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« Reply #2 on: October 20, 2010, 07:26:50 PM »

No.....the truth is, the truth is out!

Pest control companies in the past routinely spray the entry point, plugged up the whole, and then collected a couple hundred dollar check. Leaving the homeowner with 100 pounds of honey in the wall that will be a food source for ants, roaches, and insects for years to come. Or a situation where they could not possible kill all the bees and they eat through the caulking and the nest just continues on. Or the job really is a harder than just walking around with a can of spray.

To do the job properly, it may require opening up a wall or spending more than twenty minutes prancing around with a backpack sprayer. And this is just too hard for some pest companies.

Truth is, they put themselves in a position of being called back since all the bees have not been killed, or a situation where they leave behind a bigger liability to the homeowner and the company. And they would rather just not deal with this type situation any longer.

BTW...I never will go do a job after the homeowner has sprayed the bees. And I make that very clear on my website. I love the people who want me to "come out and save the bees since they have heard they are in danger", and then in the conversation, it is disclosed that the real reason they want me to come out is because the three cans of spray they already used didn't do the job.
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« Reply #3 on: October 20, 2010, 07:33:13 PM »

I agree with Bjorn 100%. I've been getting calls where they owners had the bees killed by an exterminator. It seems that after a month or so in the Florida heat/humidity the honey left in the walls starts to ferment. Not only does it smell bad, but it boils out of the comb and runs down the wall ruining both the drywall and the carpet.

These folks want me to come out and do a removal sans bees. I pass them on to some out of work carpenters I know.

Scott
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« Reply #4 on: October 20, 2010, 07:40:37 PM »

I see ya'lls point on that one now and it makes total sense to me.   I wonder how many companies got sued after they ruined someones home?   
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kathyp
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« Reply #5 on: October 20, 2010, 07:44:41 PM »

makes sense to me also.  i doubt that exterminators want to dig into walls and in this state, they might have some trouble with the union contractors.  they are getting really nasty about stuff. 
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #6 on: October 20, 2010, 09:03:20 PM »

 This company tell folks you have to eradicate the bees then spray so they won't return
I can understand spray to NOT return go down and watch the Video that says
TampaBay.com reports: "The Art of Tampa Bee Removal"
Now if any of you are Allflorida oh well I just don't think you should tell people you have to
kill them ALL

I think its the 3rd advertisement down
This is the header to the clip

TampaBay.com reports: "The Art of Tampa Bee Removal"

http://allfloridabeeremoval.com/
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iddee
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« Reply #7 on: October 20, 2010, 10:01:57 PM »

They should change their name to Allfloridabeekillers.com. They aren't removers, they're murderers.
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« Reply #8 on: October 20, 2010, 10:27:05 PM »

I just got through watching several of the videos there.   Just what % of the bees they see are AHB?   They are just scaring people I believe.  It is easier to put a dead hive in a trash bag than to save (and maybe requeen) the hives.   "Just remember folks, stay away from illegal bee keepers."  That's what I got from the site.   
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« Reply #9 on: October 21, 2010, 07:02:06 AM »

Its a Pest control I believe and as most in Tampabay area its too scare into African
I called a few a while back and a couple told over the phone
Most found in the wild are African and they by Law Have to kill them
They get 300  and up
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« Reply #10 on: October 21, 2010, 10:44:03 AM »

I just tangled with some yellowjackets.  Went out on a "bee" removal call, they were yellowjackets of course.  The lady was young, and seemed sincere (as in, not trying to get something for nothing) so I offered to dump some gas on them for her gratis (She had a baby and little kids, and the jackets were right by her front door.)  My mistake.  Did get it done, but paid the price.  Didn't realize before how yellowjackets will go for the legs instead of the face.  My bluejeans were no deterrent what so ever.  None even tried my veil or upper body which was well protected.  I guess she did pay me something - I swigged down a third of a bottle of her kids Benedryl before I left. grin
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« Reply #11 on: October 21, 2010, 10:56:24 AM »

gotta love yellowjacket season  evil

most of the time i can tell from talking to someone whether it's yellowjackts or honeybees.  if i have any doubts, i ask them to email me a picture.  only once has that failed.  the lady went out and took a picture of a honey bee in her yard, but when i got there, her real problem was a yellowjacket nest at the base of her tree.  grin  she felt bad and gave me 20 bucks for gas.  it was a nice day for a drive.....

they really need to be killed at night.  messing with them during the day can be a disaster.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #12 on: October 21, 2010, 04:38:37 PM »

Worst I have ever bee stung was by yellow jackets.   Cleaning up limbs in a grown up field with high broom sage.   I never saw them.   Ended up with 10 or better stuck in my socks.   Stinks all over my ankles. 
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« Reply #13 on: October 21, 2010, 11:33:36 PM »

Personally, I love yellow jackets.  They make a delightful popping sound when I nail them with my weed burner.   evil
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AllenF
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« Reply #14 on: October 22, 2010, 09:14:02 AM »

Show us some video of that sometime.   Sounds like something I would like.
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« Reply #15 on: October 22, 2010, 09:28:07 AM »

Worst I have ever bee stung was by yellow jackets.   Cleaning up limbs in a grown up field with high broom sage.   I never saw them.   Ended up with 10 or better stuck in my socks.   Stinks all over my ankles. 
I had the same problem with an aggressive bee hive , they loved to attack my boots , the boots were old and had a smell of there own .
Solution new queen and new boots  grin                           
                       edward  tongue
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AllenF
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« Reply #16 on: October 22, 2010, 09:36:04 AM »

Summer time in the heat, unless I am really tearing hives apart, I work them in shorts.   If I get stung, it is the back of the knee where the bottom of the shorts rub the back of my leg.   They get caught up in there and sting.   But it ain't so bad there as long as they don't walk up the shorts.  I also get stung on the top of my foot a lot when one gets caught between the top of my foot and my crocs.   But I may have only been stung less than 10 times this summer.  Just not worth keeping up with.  I still wear a veil, not crazy.
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JP
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« Reply #17 on: October 22, 2010, 10:17:24 AM »

We have a lot of exterminators down here by me. As most of y'all know by now, I am a licensed pest control operator. I just happen to be someone who cares more more about bees and people than making a quick buck.

The thing that gets me is that the void space where the bees are has to be opened up anyway to remove the honey, etc...

From an unethical standpoint or ethical approach it still has to be accessed.

When I expose the colony the bees are right there, 98-99% of the colony.

Much easier to handle then.

When they're sprayed there are bees everywhere, next door, down the street, sometimes bees stinging anyone/anything they run across.

Its not a pretty sight.

It takes time and perseverance to do live removals.

Most people aren't willing to do what it takes, because they want the quick buck.

In most all cases, when the home owner has "tried" to spray them, their attempts have been to no avail. Most people grab the can of Hot Shot thinking they can eradicate the colony.

This don't ever work and even though they may kill some bees on the exterior, the colony as a whole is generally unaffected.

IMO it is our job to educate not berate those who don't understand bees, who have tried to spray them.

Once I take a job and the customer gets an ear full of my enthusiasm for bees, most all become converts and some of those same people call me or refer me next time to save them.

Once I show them the exposed colony, they understand why they couldn't kill them.

Most all or shocked by the sheer numbers of bees in a colony and once seeing this first hand realize this is not something they should do in the future.

I use to get mad at the "sprayers" too but what does that accomplish? Nothing!

Who better to remove bees and educate people about how wonderful they are then bee keepers?

We know better.

I'm very happy to get the calls I get and I take just about all of them.


...JP



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« Reply #18 on: October 22, 2010, 10:22:23 AM »

JP, that percentage of your work is with bees and what percent is other bugs?   Have you seen the number of bees (swarms or hives) increase over the past few years in your area?
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« Reply #19 on: October 22, 2010, 10:27:22 AM »

JP, that is one of your better posts. Thanks for it. Wish we could send it to all homeowners, tenants and landlords.  cheer
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« Reply #20 on: October 22, 2010, 12:02:28 PM »

JP.
Just be Glad you are down south.

Up here, my season is about a four month window of opportunity. I make 90% of my annual income in those 4 months.

Want to guess when many of those swarm and extraction calls come in. Yep....many in that four month period.

It's not about "education" for me. I simply do not have the time to "educate" the public by doing cutouts for ignorant homeowners, many times not willing to pay the 300 dollar minimum fee I charge anyways.

Cutouts can be an all day thing. And for me to schedule a cutout, this means it's one less day in the bee yard. I can build, graft, and produce 10-20 nucs in any given day. Even at 10 nucs, that would be $850.00 at $85.00 each. You won't ever hear me state to a customer that "I don't have your nucs ready this week because I was out "educating" the public doing a cutout.

What I have found, is that most homeowners who sprayed, did so because they were too cheap to pay anyone from the start. Then I get the call after they tried to deal with the situation with a 4 dollar can of spray, but want me to "save" the bees.

Will I "educate" a homeowner for $300 and the benefit of collecting some bees? Yes. I do it all the time. But filling my bees vac with bees dripping with poison, or haggling with a homeowner over the cost of the remains of a half dead colony, is something I pass on. Bee glad. If everyone felt like I do, that benefits you. So it is not a negative.

Myself, I hold open houses, have visitors almost every week on the farm, have spent thousands of dollars out of my own pocket starting National Honey Bee Day, a breeders association, a statewide bee association, maintain observation hives in various locations, pay for an open picnic for over 100 beekeepers every year, give speeches every year to schools for no fee, and probably mentor 20 beekeepers a year, among other things. Forgive me if I don't have the time or desire to do what you think "we" should all be doing.

Maybe you don't do what I do, and I don't do what you do. But it is not for you to say what anyone else does or does not do. I stated I do not go out for half dead sprayed colonies. You state you do. That is fine. But it is not something for you to comment or suggest others should do the same. Maybe some others like myself do have limited pockets after all the other generous "education" we supply the community.

It's nice that you can afford it. It's another thing to suggest that all beekeepers should feel the same way as you and suggest "who better?" and "we know better".  To suggest we are dropping the ball by not taking the opportunity to run out and provide this service as an educational opportunity, may just be bit amiss for others. Although maybe your "It's not about the money" comment is the basis of your decision and comments, while it may matter to others who can't do charity work educating homeowners with spray cans in their hands.

Anyone who feels different and lives nearby, let me know. I will gladly pass on all the half dead poisoned sprayed extraction jobs.  Wink
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JP
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« Reply #21 on: October 23, 2010, 01:59:24 PM »

JP, that percentage of your work is with bees and what percent is other bugs?   Have you seen the number of bees (swarms or hives) increase over the past few years in your area?

Allen, 99% of what I do is fooling with bees. I also write insect reports for act of sales and give termite estimates to perspective customers.

I have other people working for me that perform the vast majority of the bug work.

I find that the weather dictates how bees will react from season to season. Rain has alot to do with it. No nectar, no honey flows, less swarming, etc...

Thanks Iddee. That means alot from someone who understands what we go through "down in the south".


...JP
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« Reply #22 on: October 23, 2010, 02:21:44 PM »

i have not had luck trying to save colonies that have been sprayed....or better  yet, had seven dust poured on them.  i don't berate a person for spraying them, but i'm not going out in the middle of October to try and save a sprayed colony that has been there through the summer.  i know she was trying to take care of it and save money, but now she'll end up paying to have someone do what i would have done for free if she'd called earlier.  

you guys are running a business.  i am running a hobby.  i get to be picky  grin
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #23 on: October 23, 2010, 02:45:44 PM »

I hate insecticidal dusts, they are indiscriminate!

When someone tells me they were dusted I tread with extreme caution.


...JP
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« Reply #24 on: October 24, 2010, 02:51:05 AM »

This year I have removed five or six colonies of bees which have previously been sprayed by either the home owner or an exterminator.  I took the jobs, made my 300 minimum, made extra on the carpentry and found out that in ALL sprayed colonies only a small section near the entrance was affected.  After the cutout is made I keep the frames separate from any other colony and so far I have not had a dead hive.  Next season I just go through all the "cutout" frames and destroy them.  All my cutout frames are prewired for comb support so they are easy to ID.
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« Reply #25 on: October 24, 2010, 09:47:01 AM »

This year I have removed five or six colonies of bees which have previously been sprayed by either the home owner or an exterminator.  I took the jobs, made my 300 minimum, made extra on the carpentry and found out that in ALL sprayed colonies only a small section near the entrance was affected.  After the cutout is made I keep the frames separate from any other colony and so far I have not had a dead hive.  Next season I just go through all the "cutout" frames and destroy them.  All my cutout frames are prewired for comb support so they are easy to ID.

 That seems like it would work good, as long they don't carry some residue from the unknown Bad comb
I do like it ,If I get that far I may wipe the comb out one more time

Tom
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« Reply #26 on: October 24, 2010, 10:27:15 AM »

The thing is, at least down here people try to spray the bees with that can of wasp spray standing 10' or more from the entrance point.

99% of the time they only hit bees on the exterior.

The colony is inside of the void space, in most all cases I run across, unaffected.

I do my best to get the customer's perspective as to exactly what they did, how they did it and what type of product they used.

If possible I like to see what was used.

The can of spray is usually laying in the weeds somewhere close.

I don't advise anyone to accept any type job where insecticidal dusts were used.

If the customer hired an exterminator/exterminators find out what/how they preceded.

If the probability is high that the void space was injected/dusted this hive may be doomed/contaminated.

If you for some reason are still wanting to take this job:

Tread with extreme caution. If this same colony appears to be strong and you still want to try and save them, wear proper protection, chemical resistant gloves, perhaps a respirator and by all means only save the bees, don't use any portion of their hive for fear of contamination issues.

Gaucho is experienced in doing removals and is taking proper precautions on comb usage. Heed his advice.

And by all means charge for your services if you have to go through all this to try and save a hive that was dusted or injected.

Folks, I am not advocating that you go out and remove bees that have been sprayed, its is up to you if you want to get involved with a job like this, but if you even consider it, ask a million questions and if you're unsure of the situation by all means walk away.

There are far easier and better ways to get bees than doing cut outs.


...JP



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« Reply #27 on: October 24, 2010, 11:18:20 AM »

After reading JP's post I realized that I should have mentioned that there were times when I did have to destroy all of the nest due to white dust spray (poison) by the exterminator.  Last year an exterminator did his job but the bees were still there.  He passed the job over to me and I did the cutout, removed a very small quantity of bees and trashed everything I took out (comb, honey, brood, etc.).

The following picture is of my last cutout at a local academy here in Massachusetts.  The grounds crew took it upon themselves to use liquid spray but failed to destroy the colony.  I was called and did the cutout.  On the first pic you can see their access hole at the bottom right side of the second floor window.  The next picture shows the actual colony directly below the window.  You can see that the comb on the right side is new.  This is only 6-8" away from their main entrance.  The poison failed to reach the colony because of the "crippled stud" separating the colony from the entrance.  Out of this cutout I was able to get the whole hive, including a small size of brood but lots of sealed honey.



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« Reply #28 on: October 24, 2010, 11:44:10 AM »

Kathy, Kathy, Kathy, you make me smile.  I am and have been shocked to read in the past of you doing cutouts, swarm removal and the like, I know how my body feels these days, and I would/could never in my wildest dreams get into doing cutouts, good on you girl!!!  Think I have a bit of a lazy side, I would rather do something more sedentary like -- chuck rocks  :shock  .You must be fit as a fiddle (where did that odd expression come from anyways?  it is a strange one, smiling).  Keep it up girl, you doin' awesome with heading out to the wild blue yonder to save the bees, my hat off to ya  cool  cool.  Have that most awesomely wonderful and great day with health that is even better.  Cindi
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There are strange things done in the midnight sun by the men who moil for gold.  The Arctic trails have their secret tales that would make your blood run cold.  The Northern Lights have seen queer sights, but the queerest they ever did see, what the night on the marge of Lake Lebarge, I cremated Sam McGee.  Robert Service
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« Reply #29 on: October 24, 2010, 11:57:19 AM »

i think Annette has been doing some also.  several other ladies, but Annette and i may be the elders  grin
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

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« Reply #30 on: October 24, 2010, 12:06:27 PM »

 grin and a big  Smiley, think I'm getting pretty close, yes, I do actually recall now that I have read a couple of Annette's posts, she is coming up fast and hard after you with workin' that tha bees, beauty.  Have a most wonderful and awesome day, keep it up, health.  Cindi
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There are strange things done in the midnight sun by the men who moil for gold.  The Arctic trails have their secret tales that would make your blood run cold.  The Northern Lights have seen queer sights, but the queerest they ever did see, what the night on the marge of Lake Lebarge, I cremated Sam McGee.  Robert Service
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« Reply #31 on: October 24, 2010, 12:10:02 PM »

JP, Bjorn, Kathy, et al:

Thanks for all you do to educate the public and promote beekeeping. Everyone goes about it in their own way with the time and resources available to them.  Glad we don't all do the same thing.  The world would be boring.
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linda d
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« Reply #32 on: October 24, 2010, 12:32:16 PM »

you are welcome, but don't put me in the same class with those guys.  they have many years more experience than i.  most of what i know i have learned from them.  the rest i learned from messing up  evil
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #33 on: October 24, 2010, 08:09:50 PM »

*******you guys are running a business.  i am running a hobby.  i get to be picky*******


Good for you kathyp.  That is what it is all about.... grin

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My favorite comedy program used to be Glenn Beck--The only thing is that after I heard the same joke over and over again it became BOOOORING.....

People who have inspired me throughout my life---Pee-wee Herman, Adolph Hitler, George W. Bush, Glenn Beck.
Notice I did not say they were people who I admire !!!
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