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Author Topic: extractor question  (Read 10029 times)
rdy-b
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« Reply #20 on: October 22, 2010, 12:06:05 AM »

Ron; I'm still confused here! Why do you need to reverse the motor? I've never used a tangential extractor but I think that once you flip the baskets you just continue turning in the same direction. Looking at the Dadant tangentials/radials, the motor only turns in one direction. Even if you reverse the motor you still have to flip the frames. The honey side has to face out to extract and it doesn't matter which direction it turns. As stated above centrifugal force operates the same no matter which direction you turn the reel. Does your extractor automatically flip the frames when you reverse it?  huh

i dont see the advantage ether but they do make them to reverse in Europe -RDY-B
http://www.brushymountainbeefarm.com/20-Frm-Deluxe-Power-Extractor/productinfo/814/
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AllenF
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« Reply #21 on: October 22, 2010, 09:12:47 AM »

Maybe from keeping the frames from getting dizzy?   Or you don't want to liberalize the honey by spinning it too much to the left?   That's all I could come up with.   I know that when hand cranking, you just get tired and have to go the other way after a while.
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« Reply #22 on: October 22, 2010, 09:35:45 AM »

I have a hand-crank tangentail and I never get tired cranking.... that's Pam's job! evil  I get to do the uncapping... cool
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AllenF
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« Reply #23 on: October 22, 2010, 09:39:06 AM »

My wife started off spinning, but she soon found other things that just had to be done every time we extracted this summer.   She wore me out.   I will look this spring to see if Dandant makes a motor to fit my old hand crank.
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Acebird
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« Reply #24 on: November 23, 2010, 03:32:30 PM »

Quote
I have seen several extractors where they used old ceiling fan motors and you would control the speed with a rotary fan speed control switch from Home Depot.  


I just made one using a ceiling fan but I am going to use the three stepped switch that came with the fan for the three speeds.  I won't get to use it until next season but I am confident it will work fine.  The fan is mounted inside a plastic 55 gal drum.  I don't think I can post a picture yet so you will have to wait to see it.


« Last Edit: November 24, 2010, 09:23:32 AM by Robo » Logged

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« Reply #25 on: November 24, 2010, 09:26:55 AM »

I just made one using a ceiling fan but I am going to use the three stepped switch that came with the fan for the three speeds.  I won't get to use it until next season but I am confident it will work fine.  

Either I'm missing something here, or that motor is going to get covered in honey?Huh
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Acebird
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« Reply #26 on: November 24, 2010, 10:01:39 AM »

I went back and forth on mounting the motor on top or leave it in the bottom.  Here are my thoughts: It makes it more difficult and harder to work with to mount it on top.  With the motor setting on the bottom I can just load the frames onto the PVC spindle and then set the spindle on the motor folowed by the top wooden "X" bearing.  Yeah, it may get some honey on it but not much.  Centrifugal force is going to sling it out away from the motor.  I have it set up to do four frames at a time right now until I can see how it goes next year.
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Bee-Bop
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« Reply #27 on: November 24, 2010, 01:44:41 PM »

If I may;

After you have uncapped your frames, they Drip honey, as I'm sure you know.

If I understand your proposed procedure, you will take the uncapped frames insert them into the holder, then load this as a unit onto the motor in the barrel.

I believe You better figure a way to cover the motor, when extracting, honey goes every where, remember it takes time for the frames to reach centrfical speed were the honey will be thrown with force all the way to the side of the barrel.

1 other thing I'm sure you know, until the frames become balanced by the extraction spinning, the extractor will walk across the flour, shakeing and a bouncing.

Good Luck
Bee-Bop

My Home Made Extractor


« Last Edit: November 24, 2010, 02:30:15 PM by Bee-Bop » Logged

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AllenF
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« Reply #28 on: November 24, 2010, 04:09:38 PM »

That motor needs to be on top, or on top side mount with a pulley.   
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rdy-b
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« Reply #29 on: November 24, 2010, 04:43:58 PM »

  ceiling fan extractor--
 cheesy RDY-B                http://www.honeymoonapiaries.com/homemadeextractor/homemadeextractor1.htm
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Acebird
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« Reply #30 on: November 24, 2010, 07:07:44 PM »

Hi Bee Bop.  I probably should tell you that we refrigerate the frames because we take them late in the evening when it is cool and the bees seem to be very docile.  The honey doesn't drip until it warms up a bit at which time I expect it to fling out.

All right, say it drips on the motor.  So what, the outside of the motor spins with the frames so what ever lands on it to begin with will only sling off.  If it becomes a problem I will just place and aluminum pie tin over it and then there are no worries.  As far as the balance is concerned the beauty of a ceiling fan motor is it turns very slow on slow speed and gradually builds up speed because it is a torque motor which has the ability to be stalled without burning up.  I will just hold the RPM down if the barrel tries to walk.  Having all the weight of the motor belt and pulleys on top only makes the center of gravity high, which is not an advantage.  I am sure once your barrel gets some honey in the bottom it doesn't move anymore.

I will let you guys know how it all works out next year.  I got about $15 invested it this so far.
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« Reply #31 on: November 24, 2010, 07:54:50 PM »

I love your spirit of innovation! Looking forward to updates.

Scott
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« Reply #32 on: November 24, 2010, 08:36:36 PM »

Again I wish you the best:
How ever I must say my extractor itself is balanced, with out frames in  it does not move.
However With full frames it does shake pretty much, yes it will hold 7 gal. of honey with out getting in the lower bearing, and with two 5 gal. buckets of water on the lower built in stand it does move some.
The motor driven extractors I have seen have holes in the legs to bolt them to the floor. { I'm working on that }

My RPM is from 0 too about 350-400 RPM. I start at 0 and slowly work it up to about 100 rpm about 20-30 sec., wait about 10 seconds then ease up to ward the top end, by that time they are empty.

I've never tried extracting refrigerated honey, I like about 90 degrees or so, that way the honey is thin and extracts just about completely.
I can run 10 mediums, 5 fulls or 5&5

Again good luck, nothing wrong with trying a idea.
Oh, and I am in NO way trying to diswade you in anyway, us do-it-ourselfers are a minority, and have to stick together.

Bee-Bop
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Acebird
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« Reply #33 on: November 25, 2010, 08:47:20 AM »

In the refrigerated state the honey is not going to move much.  It will have to warm up some before it starts to sling out.
I see an important difference in our two designs.  Your extractor has the frames mounted to the outside, mine are on the inside.  The weight difference between frames will cause much more shaking about when they are out at a greater distance.  Of course I will have to spin them longer and maybe faster to get the honey out.  Time is not a concern for me.  It took over a week to get the honey out with the heat and drip method.  I suspect with my new extractor I should be able to get it all done in one day.
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WPG
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« Reply #34 on: November 25, 2010, 11:55:39 PM »

Unique design. Nice work.
Go with the pie pan at the start.
One problem I notice is the frames are bottoms out, they need to be tops out on a radial extractor.
The reason? you say.  The cells of the comb on each side are slanted up approximately 13 degrees, so honey will be trapped, and no amount of speed will help.
Just a little more tinkering and you'll have it all figured out.

Goodluck
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« Reply #35 on: November 26, 2010, 09:14:44 AM »

I didn't know that, Thanks.  Looking at my frames I can now see a definite uphill slant to the comb.  My design was influenced by many home made spinners that basically use a paint stir (2 frame) whereby they attach the frames by the top board like I have.  I am not sure if the bottom slats are strong enough to handle the force if I mounted the frames that way.  I will be thinking about turning them around and what that will take.
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Jim 134
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« Reply #36 on: November 27, 2010, 06:42:04 PM »

I just made one using a ceiling fan but I am going to use the three stepped switch that came with the fan for the three speeds.  I won't get to use it until next season but I am confident it will work fine.  

Either I'm missing something here, or that motor is going to get covered in honey?Huh


Robo....
   Reply # 30 (I probably should tell you that we refrigerate the frames)

  
  1 Cold honey  huh
  2 Top bars inward not outward  huh
  3 Motor on bottom  huh

 Hope it works for you

     BEE HAPPY Jim  134 Smiley
« Last Edit: November 27, 2010, 08:46:04 PM by Jim 134 » Logged

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« Reply #37 on: December 01, 2010, 02:10:25 AM »

I might suggest that you still use the tabs on the top bars to take the force by using larger pieces of plywood and cutting the notches further out. Then maybe some kind of clip on the pipe in the middle to keep the bottoms from flipping sideways.
Do some more brainstorming and have fun, plenty of time.
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« Reply #38 on: December 01, 2010, 12:14:42 PM »

I thought about that for a while but I decided to make metal brackets that clip on to the side of the frames.  This way it will use the same mounting as I previously designed and also hook on to the top bar.  I want to use the extractor as it is to spin out most of the honey and then turn the frames around to get the rest out.  When they are tuned around (top bar out) the frames will be lightened quite a bit and I suspect less of an imbalance problem.  There are videos of the paint stir technique on the net and it looks like most of the honey comes out of the frames even with the top bar facing inward.
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« Reply #39 on: December 01, 2010, 12:56:24 PM »

If you have a 2010 Dadant catalog;
On the front cover a stop motion photo shows a radial extractor in use.
It gives a very clear picture of the honey being flung out both sides of the frame once it is up to speed, neat picture.

Bee-Bop
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