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Author Topic: extractor question  (Read 13851 times)

Offline ronwhite3030

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extractor question
« on: October 18, 2010, 07:56:22 PM »
how many rpm's does an extractor have to do to efficiently extract the honey and not get blowouts, I am trying to figure out what gear reduction I need for a motor because I cant put a variable switch on it or it will burn it up but the motor is reversible or if anyone knows of what reversible, variable speed motor I should get let me know.

Offline AllenF

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Re: extractor question
« Reply #1 on: October 18, 2010, 07:58:56 PM »
I do not know the right answer on that one, but I think it would depend on how big your extractor is (size around) and your frames, old wax or new wax, wired or plastic.  Maybe trial and error?   That is how I always done it.

Offline AllenF

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Re: extractor question
« Reply #2 on: October 18, 2010, 07:59:41 PM »
(But I am still working with the old hand crank.)

Offline ronwhite3030

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Re: extractor question
« Reply #3 on: October 18, 2010, 08:07:16 PM »
yea i am trying to get away from the hand crank, now this is also a situation I have to.

I have a reversible motor that I can't make variable speed unless i use a clutch or sprockets, and I also have a motor that I can make variable speed but I can't reverse it to all you people out there would you rather have a reversible motor and have to deal with spockets or a clutch or a variable speed motor and just suck it up and flip the frames by hand?

Offline hardwood

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Re: extractor question
« Reply #4 on: October 18, 2010, 08:12:05 PM »
If you extract radially the comb can take a little more inertial force. Between the two motors I would opt for the variable speed. As Allen said it's more about the actual comb.

I extract foundationless (first year I've tried it) and found to start really slow until the bulk of the honey slings out and then gradually increase the speed.

Scott
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Offline AllenF

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Re: extractor question
« Reply #5 on: October 18, 2010, 08:13:18 PM »
I have an old Dadant hand crank that is maybe 30 (who knows 40) years old I got from my old man.   It looks just like the ones in the catalog so I was hoping one day to give them a call and see if the motors they have today might fit.   I know it would be worth the money for me to add a motor than to buy a new one.

Offline fish_stix

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Re: extractor question
« Reply #6 on: October 18, 2010, 09:39:00 PM »
Please explain why you need to reverse a powered extractor. BTW, I think you'll find the rpm's you need are about 60 rpm to start and sling out the biggest part of the honey, then gradually increasing to about 300 rpm to get the rest.

Offline ronwhite3030

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Re: extractor question
« Reply #7 on: October 19, 2010, 02:12:43 AM »
reverse is so you don't have to flip the frames by hand .

Offline tecumseh

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Re: extractor question
« Reply #8 on: October 19, 2010, 07:51:21 AM »
the first variable would be are you extracting radially or tangentially?  and as someone suggest the next variable is diameter of the extractor can.

as a general guide line I think fish_stix numbers looks about right.

I personally use a variable speed drill (chucked to the shaft of my extractor reel) with a variable voltage device (used in a physics lab) that allows me to get around all the gearing problems. 
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Offline danno

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Re: extractor question
« Reply #9 on: October 19, 2010, 08:59:30 AM »
reverse is so you don't have to flip the frames by hand .
If you run clockwise or counter clockwise centrifical force doesnt change. 

Offline Tommyt

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Re: extractor question
« Reply #10 on: October 20, 2010, 07:49:53 AM »
reverse is so you don't have to flip the frames by hand .
If you run clockwise or counter clockwise centrifical force doesnt change. 
I believe you danno So Now I am confused about these post's
If Frames are Standing(bike rim's) and going Clock wise then you reverse ??
Is it that the reverse just loosens the left honey ??
WHAT is Flip Them ??

Thanks
Tom
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Offline fish_stix

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Re: extractor question
« Reply #11 on: October 20, 2010, 01:07:31 PM »
With a radial extractor you don't reverse frames. The honey from both sides of the frame is slung to the outside, to the walls of the extractor, where it runs down to the bottom. With a tangential extractor, usually the small 4 frame or less extractors, only the honey on one side is slung out, then you reverse the frames to get the other side.

Offline Tommyt

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Re: extractor question
« Reply #12 on: October 20, 2010, 02:41:02 PM »
What Type is this



Quote
a tangential extractor
?
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Offline danno

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Re: extractor question
« Reply #13 on: October 20, 2010, 03:35:03 PM »
What Type is this



Quote
a tangential extractor
?
this is a radial extractor.   Both side get extracted at once.  tangential has baskets that only one side of a frame faces out so centrifical force only removes honey from that side.  The frame must be flipped so the other side faces out then ran again.

Offline ronwhite3030

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Re: extractor question
« Reply #14 on: October 21, 2010, 02:00:31 AM »
the first variable would be are you extracting radially or tangentially?  and as someone suggest the next variable is diameter of the extractor can.

as a general guide line I think fish_stix numbers looks about right.

I personally use a variable speed drill (chucked to the shaft of my extractor reel) with a variable voltage device (used in a physics lab) that allows me to get around all the gearing problems. 

can you show me a variable voltage device I can for a variable speed drill. I can't seem to find one.

Offline Michael Bush

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Re: extractor question
« Reply #15 on: October 21, 2010, 05:15:20 AM »
You really need to be able to start slowly when the combs are heavy and work you way up to fast when the combs are mostly empty and you want to get that last little bit off.
Michael Bush
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Offline AllenF

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Re: extractor question
« Reply #16 on: October 21, 2010, 05:50:39 PM »
I have seen several extractors where they used old ceiling fan motors and you would control the speed with a rotary fan speed control switch from Home Depot.   Very simple.

Offline rdy-b

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Re: extractor question
« Reply #17 on: October 21, 2010, 06:16:41 PM »
you need to use a speed controller-not a reostat switch-speed controllers are made to do different things -such as reversible on the FLY-also these are how they achieve a true electric brake on machinery-some are complex and some are not cost is reflected in this-also lots of people speak of the treadmill motor-i think it probably has the controller built into it-you can buy the extractor control from dadant or even mannlake-but there cost is insane-look at different controllers for different applications -and figure out what you need for a bare bones setup-also EBAY is a good place to find them cheap
 8-) RDY-B
http://www.drillspot.com/products/47230/Dart_Controls_AC03-05S_Adjustable_Speed_AC_Motor_Control?s=1
they make ac or dc depends what you need

Offline fish_stix

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Re: extractor question
« Reply #18 on: October 21, 2010, 11:41:35 PM »
Ron; I'm still confused here! Why do you need to reverse the motor? I've never used a tangential extractor but I think that once you flip the baskets you just continue turning in the same direction. Looking at the Dadant tangentials/radials, the motor only turns in one direction. Even if you reverse the motor you still have to flip the frames. The honey side has to face out to extract and it doesn't matter which direction it turns. As stated above centifugal force operates the same no matter which direction you turn the reel. Does your extractor automatically flip the frames when you reverse it?  :?

Offline rdy-b

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Re: extractor question
« Reply #19 on: October 21, 2010, 11:54:36 PM »
call walter t kelly-they used to sell a conversion kit for there 9 frame hand crank unit-you suply motor -it has a centrifigal clutch -that you tighten a wing nut while it runs and controls the speed by the pulley size change -when the wing nut is tighten-there new catolog lists maxant machines -but i think they can set you up with the conversion kit
 8-) RDY-B