Need Bees Removed?
International
Beekeeping Forums
July 25, 2014, 10:35:07 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
News: Beemaster's official FACEBOOK page
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar bee removal Login Register Chat(1)  

Pages: [1]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Hey Bjorn....  (Read 1566 times)
VolunteerK9
Super Bee
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1647

Location: Southeast Tennessee

Gamecock fan in UT land.


« on: October 14, 2010, 10:08:10 AM »

First off here is my disclaimer. This is purely a question. I'm not calling you out, not drawing a line in the sand and definitely not trying to start a heated debate. With that being said, on one posting you were talking about queens not mating with their own drones, distances flown etc and how if a breeder wasn't careful, how shallow you were making your gene pool with the queen mating with drones of her daughter's colonies. Another post, you were talking about rearing your own queens for sale from which I assume from a very large bee yard that you manage. How do you, Bjorn Apiaries, defend against inbreeding? Again, I'm not calling you out cause I agree with your shallow gene pool discussion. When I do decide to requeen some of my hives, If I buy 20 queens, should I buy them from 20 different breeders? Or will buying half from one breeder and half from another and adding them to my existing genetics be enough? Or would just one new queen added to the mix be sufficient gene diversity? I'm satisfied that you don't run your breeding program the same as some of the larger operations, I'm just curious as to what ratio you would use to bring in new genetics to your hives and feel comfortable that your not interbreeding.
Logged
BjornBee
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 3773


Location: Lewisberry, PA


« Reply #1 on: October 14, 2010, 11:01:20 AM »

I hope I can help.

I have three main mating areas. These areas are separate and each has a starting stock of different queen lines. Each mating yard is up to 100 nucs, and surrounded by as many as 25-30 support hives which are for drone saturation. Some suggest more drone hives, but I also know that the nuc yards themselves are kicking out huge amounts of drones. The biggest factor in genetic diversity, is taking overwintered queens from one area of my operation and moving her to graft and mate her queens into another area of my operation. So she is mating with different drones, even if they are from the same yard. Most of my mating nucs produce no drones. (Keep in mind that when I say nucs are producing huge amounts of drones for an area and also say that my breeding nucs are not producing any, that is the difference between nuc building colonies and smaller three frame medium and 3 frame deep breeding boxes.)

I usually also exchange queens with other beekeepers, as well as buy lots of 50 queens from various breeders (not all northern but all either Russian or carnolian) every year to overwinter, evaluate and select for possible using in the years to come. Some are just used as drone stock.

I have about 25 yards also for honey and pollination. So I have many yards to pull a queen, take her to another location and let her offspring mate knowing they are from different lines.

The concept is really simple. The key is to have separate yards, keep good log books, and maintain different lines so you can select from one, breed in another, etc.

This can be done in one yard operations also. You can be a backyard queen producer and raise your own queens. But you should bring in a different queen from a well known and respected source. So one year you would by a queen for grafting from one person, and the next you would bring in a queen from another breeder.

As you grow, you can maintain your own ongoing lines. And if you have lines a-b-c-d-e...you would take a breeder from line b and mate with a. The other three yards can be used for evaluation, etc., for the following year. These other are not wasted as you use them for nuc building, honey production, etc. The next year, you can take c and mate with e, and so on. The variables would be many. That process along with bringing in new breeder stock allows you to mate your queens without inbreeding for your lifetime.

One of the biggest factors I think that made a huge difference for me when I started raising queens, is the use of drone saturation yards. I read the books and just followed the advice. I then found that if you asked some other breeders to show you their drone yards, they really had none. They just basically breed from one yard and you get whatever the queen mated with. There was no quality control for 50% of the mating process. You may get some really good queens, but I think it lacks in making a great quality queen. Some of my mating yards were a three year progress in finding support locations within a mile or two around the breeding yards. Took some planning and knocking on doors.

One of the things you can also do is pool your experience within the county and state and start a queen rearing program. I started the northern queen breeders association for improving breeding efforts. www.nsqba.org  Some states and counties have queen programs. But all you need is three or four dedicated beekeepers in your area willing to exchange queens every year.

Queen rearing is paying attention to detail and understanding the whole process. I'm a firm believer that if you hold up your thumb and pointer finger, and leave about a 1/8 gap.....that is the difference in effort between being average, and being great. It just takes a little extra effort. Lots of "average" out there.
Logged

www.bjornapiaries.com
www.pennapic.org
Please Support "National Honey Bee Day"
Northern States Queen Breeders Assoc.  www.nsqba.com
Joelel
Field Bee
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 578


Location: Dallas,Texas


« Reply #2 on: October 14, 2010, 11:48:06 AM »

You can't stop inbreeding with a sister hive in open yard breeding and they will breed with sister hives,only if you place your queens in a separate breeding yard about 3 miles away,then you still will get feral breeding.Queens mate with many drones,you can have many lines from one queen also. If you artificially inseminate is the only way.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2010, 12:11:16 PM by Joelel » Logged

Acts2:37: Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38: Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39: For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
40: And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation
Joelel
Field Bee
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 578


Location: Dallas,Texas


« Reply #3 on: October 14, 2010, 01:12:23 PM »

  Bjorn said>The biggest factor in genetic diversity, is taking overwintered queens from one area of my operation and moving her to graft and mate her queens into another area of my operation. So she is mating with different drones, even if they are from the same yard.

Joelel question ? How do queens graft themselves ?
Logged

Acts2:37: Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38: Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39: For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
40: And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation
Joelel
Field Bee
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 578


Location: Dallas,Texas


« Reply #4 on: October 14, 2010, 01:23:53 PM »



Bjorn said> Each mating yard is up to 100 nucs, and surrounded by as many as 25-30 support hives which are for drone saturation. Some suggest more drone hives, but I also know that the nuc yards themselves are kicking out huge amounts of drones.

 Joelel question >What are drone colonies ? All of my colonies only make as many drones as they want.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2010, 01:35:20 PM by Joelel » Logged

Acts2:37: Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38: Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39: For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
40: And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation
Joelel
Field Bee
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 578


Location: Dallas,Texas


« Reply #5 on: October 16, 2010, 12:02:27 PM »

 tumbleweed piano beat a dead horse I'm sorry banana devil happy campers
Logged

Acts2:37: Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38: Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39: For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
40: And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation
bassnbees
New Bee
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 11

Location: Black Mountain, NC


« Reply #6 on: October 16, 2010, 11:44:35 PM »

@ bjorn...In an age when overmedication and inbreeding have made it difficult to figure, at times, whether our practices or stock create the problems we encounter it is reassuring to me that there are people like you  figuring it out for me!!! It gives a guy faith that the beekeeping torch is not flickering as the press is leading us to believe.  I do not post very often, but am a daily voyeur of this site and could not resist a reply on such an interesting and ultimately revelant thread. Peace   
Logged
bhough
New Bee
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 39

Location: Tampa, FL (recently moved from Pittsburgh, PA)


« Reply #7 on: October 18, 2010, 12:14:46 AM »

I've been to one of Bjorn's yards and it is both beautiful and interesting.  He is the real deal.
Logged
Joelel
Field Bee
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 578


Location: Dallas,Texas


« Reply #8 on: October 18, 2010, 08:46:47 PM »

I've been to one of Bjorn's yards and it is both beautiful and interesting.  He is the real deal.

Me Too    banana devil banana devil banana devil banana devil banana devil banana devil banana devil banana devil banana devil banana devil banana devil banana devil happy campers I'm sorry
Logged

Acts2:37: Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38: Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39: For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
40: And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation
BjornBee
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 3773


Location: Lewisberry, PA


« Reply #9 on: October 19, 2010, 07:18:21 AM »

@ bjorn...In an age when overmedication and inbreeding have made it difficult to figure, at times, whether our practices or stock create the problems we encounter it is reassuring to me that there are people like you  figuring it out for me!!! It gives a guy faith that the beekeeping torch is not flickering as the press is leading us to believe.  I do not post very often, but am a daily voyeur of this site and could not resist a reply on such an interesting and ultimately revelant thread. Peace   

Thank you very much.

Logged

www.bjornapiaries.com
www.pennapic.org
Please Support "National Honey Bee Day"
Northern States Queen Breeders Assoc.  www.nsqba.com
BjornBee
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 3773


Location: Lewisberry, PA


« Reply #10 on: October 19, 2010, 07:20:03 AM »

I've been to one of Bjorn's yards and it is both beautiful and interesting.  He is the real deal.

Thank you.

And your welcome back anytime.... Wink
Logged

www.bjornapiaries.com
www.pennapic.org
Please Support "National Honey Bee Day"
Northern States Queen Breeders Assoc.  www.nsqba.com
Pages: [1]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Beemaster's Beekeeping Ring
Previous | Home | Join | Random | Next
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines | Sitemap Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.575 seconds with 21 queries.

Google visited last this page June 26, 2014, 12:42:21 AM