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Author Topic: How are you saving for retirement?  (Read 4441 times)

Offline BeeHopper

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Re: How are you saving for retirement?
« Reply #20 on: October 13, 2010, 06:24:22 PM »
The Day I drop dead is the first day of my "Retirement".

Offline Michael Bush

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Re: How are you saving for retirement?
« Reply #21 on: October 14, 2010, 09:07:49 AM »
>Like roy rogers said. land its the only investment they ain't making any more of

That was "Will" not "Roy"...
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Offline Bee Happy

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Re: How are you saving for retirement?
« Reply #22 on: October 14, 2010, 01:06:41 PM »
>Like roy rogers said. land its the only investment they ain't making any more of

That was "Will" not "Roy"...

...and Mark Twain before that...
be happy and make others happy.

Offline tshnc01

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Re: How are you saving for retirement?
« Reply #23 on: October 15, 2010, 05:13:31 PM »
This book was written in 1980, but very timely.  The Alpha Strategy.  Here is a link to a pdf file of the book.

...Tim

http://www.biorationalinstitute.com/zcontent/alpha_strategy.pdf

Offline Keith13

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Re: How are you saving for retirement?
« Reply #24 on: October 16, 2010, 12:04:35 PM »
>Like roy rogers said. land its the only investment they ain't making any more of

That was "Will" not "Roy"...


oops big difference

Keith

Offline kbenz

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Re: How are you saving for retirement?
« Reply #25 on: October 17, 2010, 08:38:01 PM »
had to quit saving for retirement, right now its a struggle to keep the roof over our heads :(

Offline AliciaH

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Re: How are you saving for retirement?
« Reply #26 on: October 18, 2010, 03:04:46 PM »
The first step in our retirement will be to find a place we can afford to live.  With the recession and all, the assessed value of our house fell and we thought we'd get some relief on our property taxes.  No luck, the County turned right around and raised the value of the land to compensate.  Our sales tax is almost 10% (9.5-9.8 depending on area). 

There is an "excise tax" (income tax) on the ballot for November.  Supposedly for the folks who make over $200K a year ($400 for a couple).  But it opens the door for the rest of us later.  I'm really hoping it fails.

Retirement is quickly becoming another word for "creative financing".


Offline AllenF

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Re: How are you saving for retirement?
« Reply #27 on: October 18, 2010, 04:20:00 PM »
Yes, the government likes to tax, I mean take away from the producers and redistribute, I mean let the non producers become dependent on the government.

Offline tecumseh

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Re: How are you saving for retirement?
« Reply #28 on: October 19, 2010, 08:42:24 AM »
an AliciaH snip:
With the recession and all, the assessed value of our house fell and we thought we'd get some relief on our property taxes.  No luck, the County turned right around and raised the value of the land to compensate.  Our sales tax is almost 10% (9.5-9.8 depending on area). 

tecumseh:
I think you comment points to two current underlying real problems in how we pay for government.  paying for state government now depends on consumption (sales tax) and state and local governments are highly dependent on the price of real property to constantly rise.  I suspect sales tax rates above 9% is inelastic (which basically means you can continue to raise the rate, but gross receipts is stagnant or fall).

taxes (local, state and federal) have not always been structured in this manner.
I am 'the panther that passes in the night'... tecumseh.

Online kathyp

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Re: How are you saving for retirement?
« Reply #29 on: October 19, 2010, 11:29:28 AM »
Alicia, i saw that income tax for you guys.  boy, i hope you don't do that, but WA is like OR.  the city folks never saw a tax they didn't like!  i'd rather we had a sales tax than an income tax, but i know we won't be able to do the switch.  property taxes come next month and i dread the bills!  we expanded our social welfare programs and raised minimum wage when things were good, and now they want to spend more to "help people" because things are bad.  

i'm beginning to understand "Let them eat cake!".
.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline winginit

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Re: How are you saving for retirement?
« Reply #30 on: October 19, 2010, 02:12:42 PM »
tecumseh:
I think you comment points to two current underlying real problems in how we pay for government.  paying for state government now depends on consumption (sales tax) and state and local governments are highly dependent on the price of real property to constantly rise.  I suspect sales tax rates above 9% is inelastic (which basically means you can continue to raise the rate, but gross receipts is stagnant or fall).

Interesting, hadn't thought about it but now I agree that sales tax rates above 9% are probably inelastic IF people can buy elsewhere. California sales tax on cell phones is horrible, somewhere in the 20% range. I now make sure to buy everything from Ohio (where I live, so it's legal, but I am in California a lot). However, if I lived in California, I'd be stuck with it. So the elasticity of sales tax is a function of place and the underlying product...and maybe some other stuff.

My county government gets almost 38% of its general fund revenue from sales tax, and something like 75% of its sales tax came from car sales, before the recession. Now I understand why the lights are timed to make me stop in front of those stupid dealerships. When car sales died, so did the county's revenue. Of course, property taxes are also a big source of revenues. So if property values go down, governments have to make up the difference by raising rates (or perhaps mills?).

Offline AllenF

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Re: How are you saving for retirement?
« Reply #31 on: October 20, 2010, 03:35:31 PM »


Offline tecumseh

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Re: How are you saving for retirement?
« Reply #32 on: October 25, 2010, 08:51:01 AM »
tshnc provides a link:
http://www.biorationalinstitute.com/zcontent/alpha_strategy.pdf

tecumseh:
curious link.  the somewhat dated stock market analysis I suspect send the real message here.  some folks will invariable miss the boat for any and all opportunities.
I am 'the panther that passes in the night'... tecumseh.

Offline Bee Happy

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Re: How are you saving for retirement?
« Reply #33 on: October 25, 2010, 03:40:36 PM »
Alicia, i saw that income tax for you guys.  boy, i hope you don't do that, but WA is like OR.  the city folks never saw a tax they didn't like!  i'd rather we had a sales tax than an income tax, but i know we won't be able to do the switch.  property taxes come next month and i dread the bills!  we expanded our social welfare programs and raised minimum wage when things were good, and now they want to spend more to "help people" because things are bad.  

i'm beginning to understand "Let them eat cake!".
As much as I pick on Alabamans - They're really nice people and have a beautiful state, sadly for them, they also have a 9.??% sales tax AND a state income tax.
be happy and make others happy.

Offline Keith13

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Re: How are you saving for retirement?
« Reply #34 on: October 25, 2010, 04:58:31 PM »
Alicia, i saw that income tax for you guys.  boy, i hope you don't do that, but WA is like OR.  the city folks never saw a tax they didn't like!  i'd rather we had a sales tax than an income tax, but i know we won't be able to do the switch.  property taxes come next month and i dread the bills!  we expanded our social welfare programs and raised minimum wage when things were good, and now they want to spend more to "help people" because things are bad.  

i'm beginning to understand "Let them eat cake!".
As much as I pick on Alabamans - They're really nice people and have a beautiful state, sadly for them, they also have a 9.??% sales tax AND a state income tax.

Parts of Louisiana pay 10% Sales tax as well as income tax and we are last in everything good. We lead the list in teen preg. crime and high school drop outs. Perfect example of throwing money at the problem will not fix the problem just make the problem bigger

Keith

Offline tshnc01

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Re: How are you saving for retirement?
« Reply #35 on: October 25, 2010, 05:48:31 PM »
Quote
curious link.  the somewhat dated stock market analysis I suspect send the real message here.  some folks will invariable miss the boat for any and all opportunities.

tecumseh, can you please elaborate or rephrase as I don't follow?

Offline bee-nuts

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Re: How are you saving for retirement?
« Reply #36 on: October 26, 2010, 03:36:25 AM »
You have only one real option and that is tangible assets and avoid currencies.  Think of things that never will lose importance or value and will always be needed or wanted, like gold,  land and hopefully bees.  These are your most secure investments that will hold value against inflation and if you can sell them for cash or trade for what you want in your retirement, all the better.

There is no way out of the financial position this county is in.  It does not matter if we cut spending, raise taxes, lower taxes or anything else short of getting rid the source of the problem which began in 1913 on Christmas eve.
The moment a person forms a theory, his imagination sees in every object only the traits which favor that theory

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Offline tecumseh

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Re: How are you saving for retirement?
« Reply #37 on: October 26, 2010, 09:12:46 AM »
tshnc writes:
tecumseh, can you please elaborate or rephrase as I don't follow?

tecumseh:
certainly...

first let me say I sped read the paper so my understanding of it content is not through or absolute.  I think you will quite understand what I am suggesting here???

there is a graft of stock prices over time adjusted for inflation that presents the general idea that stock is a not such a good investment for folks.   if you did the same analysis but lagged the time line by 1 decade the outcome would be vastly different.  the author's analysis of what determines stock price is proper as far as I can tell.

I should say that the general message of the link I do very much agree with and is excellent advice for the individual.  having stated this personal bias (somewhat defined during my time as a banker and watching closely who failed and who succeeded in $ denomination)..... the austrian school does themselves very much a disservice by suggesting what applies in the micro sense also applies in the macro sense.  their 'often snipped' simplistic examples are fraught with this flaw.
I am 'the panther that passes in the night'... tecumseh.

Offline tshnc01

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Re: How are you saving for retirement?
« Reply #38 on: October 26, 2010, 09:48:57 AM »
Quote
I should say that the general message of the link I do very much agree with and is excellent advice for the individual.  having stated this personal bias (somewhat defined during my time as a banker and watching closely who failed and who succeeded in $ denomination)..... the austrian school does themselves very much a disservice by suggesting what applies in the micro sense also applies in the macro sense. 

So if I understand you correctly, you are saying that at an individual level it is a good idea to a) invest in yourself (education and your ability to produce) b) to invest in consumables (avoids the inflation tax) and c) invest in real goods (with any surplus beyond a and b)?

So if this is good advice for the individual, why would it be a bad thing (or flawed as you say) for larger society to do the same?

Offline tecumseh

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Re: How are you saving for retirement?
« Reply #39 on: October 27, 2010, 10:23:24 AM »
yes to your questions, although 'real' assets might need a bit of fleshing out (ie stock are real assets).

I guess I could reduce my feeling to a question tshnc....

have you ever notice that some folks that make very little money acquire quite a large nest egg over their lives and that some folks that make huge salaries seem to acquire little beside whatever is the current fad and a large debt?

when too many folks start doing 'the right thing' the collective (the sum of) becomes 'the wrong thing'.  you 'should' hope for a wide/diverse response to any perceived problem.  when everyone follows one path almost always the end results is absolutely contrary to what you though the results would be.

a simple question might be to you.... what would be the immediate and ultimate results (effect) if everyone followed the author's advice?

there is a large difference in thinking in regards to micro vs macro economic thinking (theory I would guess some might call it) and anyone (claiming some economic expertise) that intermixes the two is most time walking on pretty thin ice (intellectually) or trying to promote some agenda (and yes most time hidden).  this flaw is thinking is quite evident when you are trying to have some discussion with how money and banking works.  this flaw becomes a dead give away that some folks thinking is extremely shallow and is highly likely to have been totally prompted by someone' else thinking.  some folks would do just as well to brand themselves with the word NAIVE across their forehead.... in bright day glow colors of course.     
I am 'the panther that passes in the night'... tecumseh.