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Author Topic: How are you saving for retirement?  (Read 3816 times)
AllenF
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« on: October 12, 2010, 06:33:49 PM »

With the government now looking at taking away (confiscate) our money out of 401k plans, I was wondering where to hide money for retirement since I don't trust the government to take care of me in old age.  http://cspan.org/Watch/Media/2010/10/07/HP/A/39041/Senate+HELP+Cmte+Hearing+on+Retirement+Security.aspx for the redistribution plans.   If I hide cash, inflation will eat that up (if they don't collect it up first).   Banks will be liable to give info to the government about all accounts.  Gold, well might be good if the value stays up, but with the new 1099 rules, they will tax you when you sell it.  Any ideas out there?
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kathyp
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« Reply #1 on: October 12, 2010, 07:25:35 PM »

there aren't very many options.  land might be one.  if nothing else, it's a tangible asset.  buying now is probably a good bet.  gems might be another.  i think both gold and now silver are out.  i expect a gold crash.  any way you slice it, it doesn't look good.  this next year is going to be really rough.  if you have cash and can buy land i can't think of anything better.  at least you have a place to squat in your old age.   grin
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

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« Reply #2 on: October 12, 2010, 07:27:43 PM »

I've got an aim at doing things to reduce the need for cash - 1 a good garden. Maybe some livestock (chickens, goats, ducks, etc.) 2 pay off whatever possible 3 get off the "grid" (produce power at home).
I suppose if things improve, those things make it easier to put away cash, if things get worse (confiscatory taxation), cash isn't as important anymore.
I know you need cash for most of that, but it makes room to put a lot more money away later.
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AllenF
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« Reply #3 on: October 12, 2010, 07:35:48 PM »

Land is a good option, but those too might be seized by our government one day.   And you have to pay taxes on raw land, and if you rent it out, like houses, it will get tore up.   When you go to sell, there is no telling where capital gains taxes will be (50% or better?).   Gems are in the same boat as gold.   Raw cash is losing value every day.  Think about what a dollar could buy just 10 years ago and not today.   
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kathyp
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« Reply #4 on: October 12, 2010, 07:44:22 PM »

but, taxes on unimproved land are generally much lower than taxes on improved land.  rentals can be a PIA, but they bring in income and give you tax write offs.  they also are a good bet right now because all those folks losing their homes have to live somewhere.  if you can pick up a foreclosures way under market value, you have pretty good odds of not losing money.  in the next couple of months there will be floods of foreclosed homes hitting the market again.  you probably have a 6 month to 1 year window if nothing changes to pick up foreclosures when they flow again.  banks are going to want to dump them quickly.

one mans tragedy is anothers gain.  it land was ever on your radar, this is the time.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
AllenF
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« Reply #5 on: October 12, 2010, 07:52:34 PM »

Taxes on raw land here are high.   I have rented out before and have worked on enough rentals to know that people don't care about it if it ain't theirs.   How hard is it to hide money out of the country?
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kathyp
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« Reply #6 on: October 12, 2010, 08:09:05 PM »

doesn't work. they have closed the loop holes and threatened the overseas banks so that you can't really do it.  one way is to work out of the country most of the year.  then you get to keep a huge hunk of your money tax free. 

you might consider investment in foreign currency or companies.  there are some international funds that might do it for you.  China and India have good opportunities  grin
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
AllenF
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« Reply #7 on: October 12, 2010, 08:24:58 PM »



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Bee Happy
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« Reply #8 on: October 12, 2010, 08:37:58 PM »

Land is a good option, but those too might be seized by our government one day.   And you have to pay taxes on raw land, and if you rent it out, like houses, it will get tore up.   When you go to sell, there is no telling where capital gains taxes will be (50% or better?).   Gems are in the same boat as gold.   Raw cash is losing value every day.  Think about what a dollar could buy just 10 years ago and not today.   
I think if it comes to that, then retirement will fall way way down the priority ladder.
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« Reply #9 on: October 12, 2010, 10:06:03 PM »

Buy ammo...the only think that keeps increasing in value since the election.

Scott
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AllenF
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« Reply #10 on: October 12, 2010, 10:07:29 PM »

Ammo is coming down in price now.
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kathyp
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« Reply #11 on: October 12, 2010, 10:30:21 PM »

it's still a good investment.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
JP
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« Reply #12 on: October 13, 2010, 04:31:14 AM »

Seize my land? I dare them to try it. I will pull out an arsenal and I'm sure my neighbors will be there to back me. I friggin dare them!

If it ever got to the point where government tried to seize land you will see a revolt unprecedented in our lifetimes.

I still say land is and has always been a great investment, at least in my lifetime.


...JP
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asprince
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« Reply #13 on: October 13, 2010, 05:22:32 AM »

God only created so much land. There will never be any more. The value will never be zero.


Steve
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tecumseh
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« Reply #14 on: October 13, 2010, 08:34:46 AM »

you have two classes of assets to invest in...  financial assets and real assets.

which or what combination you might choose to invest in would be highly determined by your expectation of what future events might bring...

if you expected a high inflationary environment then real assets (like real estate) is the place you would want to stow value..  when inflationary pressure gets totally out of hand folks convert anything that looks like cash as quickly as possible into some real asset (in Mexico not that long ago you could notice folks converting cash into bricks, wood or even singular bags or concrete as a hedge).

if you expected lower inflation pressure then financial assets offer the opportunity for leveraging your position and enhancing total returns.

strategically some folks prefer diversification and some like the idea of putting all of one's eggs in one basket (thereby making the eggs easier to watch).

JP writes:
If it ever got to the point where government tried to seize land you will see a revolt unprecedented in our lifetimes.

tecumseh:
well the so called conservative supreme court said it was ok.  why ain't ya' tight with that?  the Texas Ranger** did exactly what you described to obtain the property for their current stadium... I didn't see much protest there.

allenf writes:
With the government now looking at taking away (confiscate) our money

tecumseh:
the confiscation has been taking place for quite some time now and the shell game is sufficiently sophisticated that it is well understandable why folks are just now becoming aware that there is no pea under any of the shells.  distractive and vague rhetoric (like the words socialism* and such) are excellent mechanisms to keep some folks from ever noticing that the shell game has long been rigged in someone else's favor.

*I often times suspect that most folks would have a difficult time giving you a good solid definition of emotionally loaded words like socialism (or even say some fairly common words like freedom or liberal which also have been loaded up emotionally in recent times)

**GW Bush did seem to profit significantly from this public taking of property by the government to enhance the $ of another private group of folks (the private owners of the Texas Rangers).  when the dirty deed was done mr bush 1% original ownership in The Rangers was expanded to 3%.  everything has it's price... don't ya' know?     

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thebalvenie
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« Reply #15 on: October 13, 2010, 09:34:59 AM »

I don't think what Obama and his admin are doing is socialism....i think it's corporatism and economic fascism.  here's to the future.

"The problem with socialism, is eventually you run out of other people's money." -Thatcher
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AllenF
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« Reply #16 on: October 13, 2010, 09:49:57 AM »



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winginit
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« Reply #17 on: October 13, 2010, 10:33:31 AM »

In 2008, I was concerned about the "full faith and credit" of the US government, not to mention all the banks. That risk was very high then, and is down considerably now. But if you are still worried about that, then get out of stocks, bonds, banks and US dollars. And if all those crash, real estate will too. Doesn't leave much. Gold was a good bet in 2008, but still hard to predict. It didn't go up when it should have, it was significantly delayed. I am no expert in gold, but I watched the fundamentals for a short while, and gold doesn't seem to perform like it should. On the other hand, I saw that in the UK water market, the stock price was woefully behind well-known fundamentals. I just wouldn't expect that in gold. But I'm not a stock analyst so I shouldn't be extrapolating.

For my money, at the very least we should diversify assets, pay down as much debt as possible, and watch our banks' stability. If it's offering low interest rates, that's a good thing. High rates that just went down, watch out! Check this site periodically to make sure your bank is not on the Unofficial Problem Bank List (sortable by clicking on headings):
http://calculatedriskimages.blogspot.com/2010/10/unofficial-problem-bank-list-october-1.html
I told my Aunts that their bank was on this list, and they didn't listen. Then it failed.

If you have a lot of money in banks, use the FDIC's EDIE to make sure you are fully insured. Your insurance rises by using multiple accounts with different vestings (ownership types, eg. Individual, Joint, In Trust For/Pay on Death, etc).
https://www.fdic.gov/edie/index.html

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Scadsobees
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« Reply #18 on: October 13, 2010, 01:45:54 PM »

Seize my land? I dare them to try it. I will pull out an arsenal and I'm sure my neighbors will be there to back me. I friggin dare them!

If it ever got to the point where government tried to seize land you will see a revolt unprecedented in our lifetimes.

I wonder how many people in Venezuela said that!!

But they didn't take it from "people", they took it from giant soulless poor-people crushing monopolaic corporations.  rolleyes

I just read Atlas Shrugged, and while there is very much I disagree with in there, it is rather eerie reading the news after that.

Rick
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Keith13
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« Reply #19 on: October 13, 2010, 03:44:17 PM »

there aren't very many options.  land might be one.  if nothing else, it's a tangible asset.  buying now is probably a good bet.  gems might be another.  i think both gold and now silver are out.  i expect a gold crash.  any way you slice it, it doesn't look good.  this next year is going to be really rough.  if you have cash and can buy land i can't think of anything better.  at least you have a place to squat in your old age.   grin

Like roy rogers said. land its the only investment they ain't making any more of

Keith
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