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Author Topic: Advice appreciated - spring inspection- swarm cell  (Read 2442 times)

Offline tecumseh

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Re: Advice appreciated - spring inspection- swarm cell
« Reply #20 on: September 24, 2010, 08:25:30 AM »
snip..
As long as the cells are uncapped or just capped you can make manipulations that will get the bees to forget about swarm ambition.

tecumseh:
humm... this in contradictory to everything I know or any number of books (contemporary queen rearing, bioliogy of the honeybee) I have read suggest.  the fundamental rule is once started bees will not tear down cells even under some of the most unusual conditions. 

another snip...
1) Open up the brood nest of every box with 1 - 2 new frames.

2) Checkerboard overhead honey.

3)Wipe out swarm cells, the bees will get what you miss most likely.  Just make sure the queen is still laying.

tecumseh:
neither 1 nor 2 will alter the hives thinking in regards to finishing a started cell.  If the hives has begun preparation to swarm neither 1 nor 2 will alter this outcome one iota.  PERHAPS??? if 1 and/or 2 was done 30 days prior to the cell being started then either MIGHT have some effect.   as I previously suggested cells are often times not that easy to spot and whether a queen is laying or not laying may provide NO information as to whether the hive in question is preparing to superscede the queen.

at the end of the day I don't think that 'wait and see' is such a bad strategy.     
I am 'the panther that passes in the night'... tecumseh.

Offline FRAMEshift

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Re: Advice appreciated - spring inspection- swarm cell
« Reply #21 on: September 24, 2010, 11:49:03 AM »


tecumseh:
the fundamental rule is once started bees will not tear down cells even under some of the most unusual conditions. 
tecumseh,  I must be misunderstanding something here.  Bees build and tear down queen cells all the time.  We have one hive that seems to keep a queen cell or two in reserve, constantly building the cells, capping them, and then tearing them out.  Either these bees are in a constant state of indecision about swarming or they are just playing it safe as far as possible supercedure.  If you mean that they won't stop once they are committed to swarm, that may be right... but how do you know when they have committed?  Building a queen cell is clearly not the signal, since they reverse that all the time. 

And where does this 30 day number come in?  I can't say I've ever read or heard that bees make a decision 30 days in advance.  And how could you know the 30 day clock had started unless there is a clear signal?  Opening the brood nest and checkerboarding have been reported to be successful in reducing swarm behavior.  Does opening the brood nest force a reversal of a 30 day swarm decision?  How could you know without a signal that a decision had been made?  What is that signal?
"You never can tell with bees."  --  Winnie-the-Pooh

Offline hardwood

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Re: Advice appreciated - spring inspection- swarm cell
« Reply #22 on: September 24, 2010, 02:20:21 PM »
That's why the "false" or "forced" swarm works so well...we really don't know exactly when they decide to start the swarming procedures. We do know when they start swarm cells however so removing the queen (making a split with her) creates a simulated swarm to the hive. If for some reason the new queen(s) don't make it back from mating, or are poorly mated, you still have the mother queen as a back up.

Scott
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Offline bugleman

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Re: Advice appreciated - spring inspection- swarm cell
« Reply #23 on: October 24, 2010, 05:31:00 AM »
With only 1 queen cell it sounds more like a supercedure cell.....doesn't it?

Yes indeed!

I find single cells in the bottom of the brood nest (not hanging off of bottom bars)  They show up in april in the majority of my hives after they have burned through the checkerboarded honey and they have 3 boxes of brood.

I would expect people to murmor, "Say what? I ain't ever heard of that, what is this fool talking about"

Offline bugleman

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Re: Advice appreciated - spring inspection- swarm cell
« Reply #24 on: October 24, 2010, 05:33:29 AM »
Also beware, sometimes they swarm because they, the bees, not me, can tell the queen is failing.