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Author Topic: Need help, bees are swarming... NEW PICTURES INCLUDED  (Read 12863 times)
Michael Bush
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« Reply #20 on: May 28, 2005, 04:16:15 PM »

The simplest method has already been offered, which is to prop, or shim the inner cover up.  A lot of methods have been used and that's my favorite.

An Imirie shim will work.  Propping the outer cover up off of the inner cover will work.  Sliding the top box back 3/4" will work.  Drilling a hole in the top super will work (I don't like that one much).  Buying a vent kit from www.beeworks.com will work.  Smiley  Anything that lets the air out the top.  Opening up a SBB on the bottom by removing the tray will also help.  Removing any entrance reducer or flipping a reversable bottom board over to the 3/4" side will also help.  Anything that adds more room for air to come in the bottom in addition to anything that lets the air out the top will help.
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Michael Bush
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stilllearning
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« Reply #21 on: May 28, 2005, 07:34:48 PM »

Just looking at your excellent pictures
looks like a cooling problem to me
you might consider replacing the metal shade
you have over them in reality that is creating
a heat source that will radiate down to the metal
roof of the hive
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Wayne Cole
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« Reply #22 on: May 28, 2005, 08:24:15 PM »

to make top vents for mine, all I did was to cut about a 2"-3"wide notch out of the front side of my intercover putting the notch facing down against the hive body ( just cut a 2-3 inch wide slot on the outside frame of the intercover were it is even with the plywood part of the intercover, perferably in the center above your bottom entrance) then cut a piece of wood to set on top of the intercover to prop up the front of outer cover so the notch is open, it also makes a good top entrance. someone else probably could word this better. maybe someone else has some pics you can see what I mean. just my 2 cents
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Ocean
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« Reply #23 on: May 30, 2005, 02:52:34 PM »

hey everyone, today i witnessed another swarm, this time it was much bigger, and at around 11am in the mourning... I don't know what is the problem

right when they swarmed, i went in there and took 2 frames with honey and replaced them with clean ones. I decided to put the feeder back and put another super on top of the first one, so now i have 1 brood box, than super than queen excluder than another super.


During the installation and inspection of the hive, the swarm that was on the tree ( it was pretty big ) started to return to the hive, after about 1 hour they were all inside,


I dunno why they keep doing this? what should i do? next


Should i buy another hive body ( brood box )? because i only have one of those and 2 supers...


I will post more pictures in about 15 min.
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Finsky
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« Reply #24 on: May 30, 2005, 03:09:57 PM »

What a mesh of explanations Tongue

If you hive swarmed, it is too little. You feed it and it fills combs. They surely get food outside. It is summer now, or are you in Australia?

It seems that swarm returned. They did not got queen with them.

They are fanning with odour gland open, not for ventilation. It means here! This way all!

Look inside, what is situation.  Are there any free space for new eggs.
How much is capped sugar frames. Take them away and give foundations. Stop feeding.

Look, if queen is there. I has probaly gone into grass and is lost.  Hive is actually too small to swarm.  Queen has layed egg in queen cell cups?  Is that so?

I see no other reason if bees to see lansdcapes to tree canopy and return to hive.

Give them normal Langtroth box.
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Jerrymac
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« Reply #25 on: May 30, 2005, 03:18:28 PM »

Did you ever answer our big question. Are there any queen cells? Anywhere?
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« Reply #26 on: May 30, 2005, 03:20:03 PM »

And get rid of the excluder.
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rainbow sunflower  Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.   rainbow sunflower

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Ocean
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« Reply #27 on: May 30, 2005, 03:42:37 PM »

Here are the pictures that i took about 20 min ago..

ONe thing i forgot to mention is that i did see the queen in the grass, i picked it up and threw her back in the hive, and she went in there... So thats one point that i wanted to mention...



















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SherryL
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« Reply #28 on: May 30, 2005, 04:35:41 PM »

The ones you see in the grass are simply old and dying.  

As for the "attack" bees.  I'd like to hear the answer to that myself.  I have a cut-down hive with Ross Rounds supers on it - there are bees at that entrance that seem a little aggressive to some of the incoming, but they roll around a bit and then let them in.  Is it some sort of nectar or pollen transfer going on?

Here's another question for you about the location of your hive Ocean.  It's in a corner - which corner?  SE, SW, ect.  Is it possible that the hive is getting too much sun and not enough breeze?  

If you're having overheating problems already in May - June, July, and August could be a real problem for the girls.

I know you've built the little "awning" for them, but it's metal, I have to wonder if it's not adding to the lack of ventilation for them.

Anyone else have thoughts on that?
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Apis629
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« Reply #29 on: May 30, 2005, 05:33:51 PM »

The ones that you circled as "attacking" other bees wre probably just worker bees taking on the poslition of gaurds.  It's more likely that instead of attacking to other bees they wre just identifying their sents as one of the colony or an intruder.
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Ocean
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« Reply #30 on: May 30, 2005, 06:15:24 PM »

Here is the picture of what i can do for ventilation

I can make 2 cracks 1 inch each between the hive body and the 2 supers..

here is what i mean on the picture...

Please let me know if its a good idea? and if it is, all i have to do is lift it up a bit because those metal things are tightly pressed against the wood, that i won't even have to put anything underneath for it to stay.... I just need to ask you guys if its a good idea or not.....

here are the pix.




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Jerrymac
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« Reply #31 on: May 30, 2005, 06:34:35 PM »

You could just prop up the outer cover. That will do a whole lot for ventilation. I still would like to know if they have any queen cells. If they are trying to swarm then the ventilation isn't going to stop them from doing what they are doing.

Finding the queen in the grass sure sounds like they are trying to swam. Does she have her wings clipped?
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Ocean
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« Reply #32 on: May 30, 2005, 06:35:55 PM »

i dunno man, i just picked her up and threw her on the ledge, and she went back in there, but yes i've seen about 2-3 queen cells, and they were already empty.
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SherryL
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« Reply #33 on: May 30, 2005, 06:47:52 PM »

I dunno about the "crack" idea.  I'm really new at this too, but when you seperate the boxes like that, you're messing with the "bee space".  They'll be building bridge comb like crazy between the top and bottom boxes of frames.  Also, if you're talking about opening the space evenly all the way around the hive, I think that's too much open area for the bees to defend.  Could be totally wrong about that, but that's my first instinct.

You seem really handy Ocean, check out this website.  The orginator of the design is David Erye, hence the name DE hives.  www.beeworks.com

The thing that might be of interest to you is the vent box.  You could easily make one for your hive in no time at all with very little cost.  The way the holes are designed with the telescoping outer cover, it allows you to either have the screened vent holes open, or if you flip it upsidedown, then the outer cover will cover the holes (winter position).  I love mine.  The other nifty feature is that it's like an empty super or medium deep in that you can set a large (2 gallon) top feeder in there, postioned over a center hole in your inner cover and feed the bees that way, prevents any setting up of robbing.

When was your most recent visit to the hive before you nocticed the swarm?
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Miss Chick-a-BEE
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« Reply #34 on: May 30, 2005, 09:32:27 PM »

It does sound to me like they're planning for a swarm, and that what they've been doing is "practice" swarms.

I had my first hive swarm last year at the begining of March. We tried to catch it, and managed to put it in a box. I think they went back to the hive though, because the next day the original hive looked the same as usual. And it didn't look smaller anymore.
Anyway... I split the hive because it looked so large.

A few thoughts -
1) They may be feeling crowded because of only having one brood box. I saw you moved the queen excluder up. That is one good move. Did you say if you have another brood box and frames? If so, you could give them that, inbetween the bottom super and the honey supers. Or consider making a split. If the hive is rather large, it would work out well to go into winter with two hives
2) Get them some ventilation. Opening things up an inch between the supers won't work. What Sherry said about bridge comb and defending the hive is exactly right. Get them on a screened bottom board (or stand), or give ventilation on the top.
My screened bottom board stand:


With hives:



And lastly.... what was the brown smears on the front of the hive? I think someone on here has said stuff like that is nosema. (Robo?, Michael?, Finsky?)

Beth
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Ocean
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« Reply #35 on: May 30, 2005, 10:37:00 PM »

tomorrow i will go in and try marking the queen, if i do find her lol
also i will see if they need more room.

should i clip her wings?
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Finsky
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« Reply #36 on: May 31, 2005, 01:06:29 AM »

The situation was excacly as I wrote. I have so many years experience from that. I clip the wing of queen's and they do same tricks to me.

So you have real troubles now. Hive will try again with new queen which is able to fly.

1) Make your hive easy to handle. Take irons off that you can take apart boxes easily.

2) Put a hive on lower rack , about  10 inch

3) You must devide your hive. Put empty box with foundation frames and queen in old place. Half of bees will fly to the old place to that empty box.

4) put the old hive apart  5-7 feet. So they have brood and new bees.

Old queen start again lay eggs. In old hive you will get a new queen. When new queen is emerged and it lays eggs, kill the old queen and put hive parts together.
Here is more alternatives
http://maarec.cas.psu.edu/PDFs/Swarm_Prev_Control_PM.pdf
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Finsky
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« Reply #37 on: May 31, 2005, 01:07:39 AM »

http://maarec.cas.psu.edu/PDFs/Swarm_Prev_Control_PM.pdf[/quote]

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Ocean
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« Reply #38 on: May 31, 2005, 12:10:00 PM »

Finsky thanx alot for your help, here is what i decided to do.

Today i went in again and checked on them to see what is going on, i've seen about 6 queen cells, that i broke away because i don't want another swarm. I'am going to go with your suggestion and divide them.

I just placed an order on a new Hive body and 2 more supers with frames and foundations, so as soon as i get that , i will have to divide them, and i will need everyone's help on how to do that.


Can you guys tell me how would i manage to divide my bees step by step procedure?

I was thinking just putting half the frames with bees into the new box hive and putting new frames into the old one...
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Miss Chick-a-BEE
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« Reply #39 on: May 31, 2005, 01:19:02 PM »

Are you going to order a new queen for the split? Another option is that if you see any more swarm cells, put those frames over in the new split that would be queenless. Or let the new hive raise a new queen by giving them very young eggs. Personally I feel that the hive with the old queen should get the new foundation. The frames that make the new hive should have lots of brood - maybe leaving a couple frames of brood in the old hive. The nurse bees will stay with them, but the worker bees will return to the old hive.

I picture the hive splits like this - one becomes a nursery, and the other becomes a factory. The nursery needs the majority of brood, honey, pollen and finished foundation frames. The factory hive that has the old queen (now filled with mostly worker bees), gets left with just a little brood and such. Giving them new foundation gives them something to do and work on. And the old queen doesn't feel as crowded anymore. Those bees now feel like they're in a new home.

I'm no expert, but I think I've been lucky mostly with my splits. I've done only two so far. Well, three I sort of. Smiley I did take a whole brood box and add it to a weaker hive this year - but technically that's called a combine.

It's not extremly hard, just slightly tricky and attention needs to be paid to where the queen is. It's more about management of the bees rather than just hap-hazzardly shifting frames from one location to another. I just try to keep that Nursery and Factory in mind and try to make wise choices about who gets what in which hive.

Beth
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