Check this out

[iddee]

>>>>as commander in chief why would  you not do a tour of duty?<<<<

That's a good question. Why didn't our CIC do a tour of duty? At least our last one did do some...

[tecumseh]

I think perhaps some folks are conspiring with me here to make my point directly..   which is a lot of folks seem unable or incapable to look into any set of data and come to any level analysis of what the data actually means (or doesn't mean... but that is another conversation).  the basic question here being the mote... that is when is the blemish in someone else's eye and when does it reside in your own eyes???

a small snip...
But I'm confident he's no Christian.

tecumseh:
so what authority get to affirm that Mr Obama is a christian?  sounds more than a bit high handed to me unless you can point to some evidence that Mr Obama doesn't speak or act in some unchristian manner and in some regular fashion.  this act of 'JUDGING' would seem to me to qualify the person for unchristian status?  I seem to recall the CHRIST said something about that directly??? 

or most definitely this little jewel..
surely you are not rehashing the lies about GW's guard duty?

tecumseh:
well I wasn't really planning on going there, but since you brought up the little topic let's see what you KNOW???
 
so what kind of evidence do you have that would make you BELIEVE* that mr bush completed or didn't complete his military contract without reservations???  show us what you got... show us your evidence.

and then a question:

If you did personally see his military attendance record directly, could you say yes he did or no he did not fully performed his military contract?  I would guess? most folks could  not.

seem to me??? (old grey matter being always subject to error and the great heat making cpu failure always a likely hood) that what I can recall of the incident is the little lady stated quite plainly that the memo did represent the feeling of the officer who supposedly wrote the report in regards to mr bush's non performance.  she (the secretary/typist) then stated quite plainly that she had not personally typed the memo.  this 'yes it was how the officer felt in regards to mr bush's performance is now twisted to the lie status.  a curious twist yes?

I should also say that at one time I did a portion of my own military DUTY at a reserver training base where Mr Bush was assigned.  In this 'real life' example Mr Bush was not at his duty station. This evidence is neither secondhand nor hearsay.

*there is (or at least should be) a recognizable difference between what one knows and what one believes.  I would guess there is often times little discrimination in the use of these two terms.

ps.... if you desired to have a bit larger understanding of the islamic foe we are confronted with and don't wish to manufacture blow up monsters where monster don't exist then I might recommend you read 'the forbidden truth and the failed search for ben laden' (sp? always a problem for me but if you are interested in understanding I suspect you will have no problem locating the little book in any new or used book store).  the book has a number of insights not only in regards to islamic culture but also our own hand in this little drama.

   

 

[winginit]

According to the Pew Research Poll, of the 18% of people that believe that Obama is Muslim, 60% got this information from the media.

If I were Michelle, I might not want to go to Saudi Arabia either. I've travelled on business to the UAE--a very Westernized Middle Eastern nation--and as a woman it was odd to say the least. I stood out like a sore thumb. They didn't know what to do with a woman. Bathrooms were a particular embarrassment, as one place didn't even have a woman's bathroom. Luckily (!) our conference room was bugged, and as my colleague and I were trying to figure out what I was going to do about the lack of a door on the (men's) toilet--he was trying not to laugh as he refused to guard the entrance--the British secretary came running down the hall and said, "Oh yes, when I first got here I said this would not do at all, not at all! Come with me, I had this toilet installed soon after arriving." In Egypt, the bathroom was a stall in the kitchen. Try taking a 35 hour trip then having to use a stall in the kitchen the next day at work with your work colleagues making coffee. Talk about embarrassing.

I tried to not stand out, dressed conservatively. And they let me do my job. In Saudi Arabia, they would not have let me do any kind of work. And I would have had to wear long dresses and head coverings and wouldn't be allowed to drive or go anywhere without my husband. Michelle may not travel to Saudi Arabia because she can't agree to those conditions. Not to mention the fact that it's very dangerous. They have their children to think about.

[bigbearomaha]

If you did personally see his military attendance record directly, could you say yes he did or no he did not fully performed his military contract?  I would guess?Huh most folks could  not.

You would guess?  that means you have sen that record?  You have first hand information on that, or are you doing the same thing you are accusing others of?

In this 'real life' example Mr Bush was not at his duty station. This evidence is neither secondhand nor hearsay.

So you are implying that there was no good reason for him to not be at his "duty station" at that time because you were privy to the details of the information his superior officers had as to if it were an excused or not excused absence.  Or are you simply implying again?

Personally,  I don't really care as  I wasn't a fan of bush's either. didn't vote for him.  You seem to have an agenda though much the same as you accuse others of and all it boils down to here it seems s more partisan game playing, trying to make the other team look worse than your team but neither team is actually trying to improve their product or performance.

just make themselves the lesser of two evils.

If you really insist on supporting that, no wonder  I don't agree with you.

you're just as much a game player as the partisan politicians.

in simple words, what  I see from you is the pot calling the kettle black.

Big Bear

[kathyp]

http://old.nationalreview.com/york/york200402180840.asp

took me a while to find this.  thank god for archiving.  didn't want to have to look all this stuff up myself  

the majority of the opinion about bush's service came from a series of salon.com articles.  they were started before the records were released and continued with the same theme after.  

i, too, served part of my time in the reserve.  i know how points are assigned and what reservists do.  looks to me like the worst thing he did was skip a physical....which made no difference in his flight time, as he was not flying at the time.  it only made a difference in his flight status which could have been rectified at any time, if  he were needed, with a physical.
now....if we kicked everyone out who skipped a physical, i'm betting we would be really short on officers.  they go to great lengths to avoid them.  if we kicked everyone out who 'flex drilled' we'd have no doctors or nurses as they are notorious for cramming all drills into blocks of time rather than showing up monthly.

as bush did, i asked for, and received an early discharge from the last contract.  

hmmm....to bad the courts don't want to order ALL presidents records releases.  that could be interesting.

[tecumseh]

nice story winginit... I liked that.

and to bigbearomaha let me apologize and assure him directly I really have no agenda. I do have question from time to time.  that is all they are... all they represent.  perhaps 'something' to encourage a bit of conversation with a fellow citizen if they are so inclined.

national review.... unimpeachable source for sure.  and an opinion piece from 'THE MEDIA'. 

[bigbearomaha]

 I notice you didn't answer the questions though.

This is just a chat room,  I take nothing personal this is just 'fun' chat for me for the most part and I like to play devils advocate as much as anyone else.

No need to apologize to me, in the end, all i really care about here is the bees and the government staying out of my way enough to keep working with them.

(and when it comes to government in general, the more they stay out of the way, the better.)

As I have said elsewhere, the only thing these partisan sniping games accomplish to me is to show how willing people are to accept lowlife scum in our government as long as they are part of the same club.

Big Bear

[kathyp]

national review.... unimpeachable source for sure.  and an opinion piece from 'THE MEDIA'. 

as were the stories from salon.com.  the difference is the Yorks numbers can be checked.  salons rantings were purely partisan.

where was the same outrage over the Clinton draft letter and the Kerry band aids?  none to be heard from the left.

[tecumseh]

bigbearomaha writes:
I notice you didn't answer the questions though.

This is just a chat room,  I take nothing personal this is just 'fun' chat for me for the most part and I like to play devils advocate as much as anyone else.

tecumseh:
sorry about the over looked question.

like yourself I am more comfortable playing devil's advocate to the left and right and trying not to be run over while standing here in the middle of the road.  sadly most folks who have positioned themselves 'out there' where the flat earth suddenly ends don't ever recognize their own precarious position.  in my mind most folks who take the purist position at the right or left (RINO vs DINO) really haven't figured where their view will invariable lead.

and to answer your question directly 1) yes I have seen Mr Bush attendance record and 2) given that I did personnel records in the US Navy I kind of know what his attendance record reflects.

another kathyp snip..
as were the stories from salon.com.  the difference is the Yorks numbers can be checked.  salons rantings were purely partisan.

tecumseh:
thanks for reinforcing my main talking point.