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Irwin
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« on: August 20, 2010, 01:08:24 PM »

BREAKING NEWS! - Is Barack Obama Really A Saudi / Muslim "Plant" in the White House?
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« Reply #1 on: August 20, 2010, 01:13:14 PM »

ya know, i saw that.   normally i would dismiss that kind of thing out of hand, but Avi Lipkin is not a nutball. 
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #2 on: August 20, 2010, 01:20:49 PM »

I was thinking the same thing Kathy Smiley
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Brian D. Bray
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« Reply #3 on: August 25, 2010, 03:19:06 PM »

Watched Glen Beck last night, he was talking about the fact that since Obama has taken office more people now think he is a muslam than before the 2008 elections.  Interestingly in a pole about the question that revealed that 18% of Americans now believe Obama is a muslam, only 1% reached that conclusion by listing to talk radio.  Most have reached that conclusion due to Obama's own imbiguity on the matter and such things as bowing to the King of Saudi Arabia.

BTW, Glen Beck grew up in Skagit County in Mount Vernon, WA, only 16 miles from me.  I remember some of his 4th of July antics when he and some of his friends would march in the local parades as miniature minutemen.
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« Reply #4 on: August 25, 2010, 04:04:25 PM »

don't spend much time on talk radio, but i have never heard any of them call him, or be reported to have called him, a Muslim.  if i had to guess how people are forming that opinion i'd say it was his treatment of Israel, our allies, and his bowing/apology tour of the world...including the recent human rights apology to the UN.

we don't expect to see this kind of behavior from our leaders and those they chose to serve around them.  no wonder people might wonder where his allegiances lie.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #5 on: August 25, 2010, 06:12:47 PM »

Q. Where did Obama recently tell America to vacation?

A.  The Gulf Coast.

 

Q.  Where did Obama and his family go on vacation?

A.  Maine. For two days.

 

Q.  How did they get to Maine?

A.  They flew on Air Force One.

 

Q.  How did their dog Bo, the Portuguese water dog, get to Maine?

A.  On a separate smaller jet aircraft at the expense of the American taxpayer.

 

Q.  Why didn't Bo just stay at the White House for two days?

A.  The children would miss him too terribly much.

 

Q.  Why didn't Bo fly on Air Force One?

A.  Muslims won't fly with unclean animals.  Dogs are considered unclean animals.

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« Reply #6 on: August 25, 2010, 06:15:54 PM »

"If you check President Obama's last trip over-seas, his wife left just after their visit to France. She has yet to accompany him to any Arab country. Think about it. Why is Michelle returning to the states when 'official' trips to foreign countries generally include the First Lady.

Here's one thought on the matter.

While in a Blockbuster renting videos I came across a video called "Obama". There were two men standing next to me and we talked about President Obama. These guys were Arabs, so I asked them why they thought Michele Obama headed home following the President's recent visit to France instead of traveling on to Saudi Arabia and Turkey with her husband.

They told me she could not go to Saudi Arabia, Turkey or Iraq . I said "Why not,(?) Laura Bush went to Saudi Arabia, Turkey and Dubai ." They said that Obama is a Muslim and  therefore he is not allowed to bring his wife into countries that adhere to Sharia Law.

Two points of interest here: 1) I thought it interesting that two American Arabs at Blockbuster believe that our President is a Muslim, 2) who follows a strict Islamic creed. They also said that's the reason he bowed to the King of Saudi Arabia.  It was a signal to the Muslim world, acknowledging his religion.

For further consideration, here is a response from Dr. Jim Murk, a Middle Eastern Scholar and expert on Islam. This is his explanation of what the Arab American's were saying.

"An orthodox Muslim man would never take his wife on a politically oriented trip to any nation which practices Sharia law, particularly Saudi Arabia where the Wahhabi sect is dominant. This is true and it is why Obama left Michelle in Europe. She will stay home when he visits Arab countries. He knows Muslim protocol; this includes, bowing to the Saudi King.

Obama is regarded as a Muslim in the Arab world, because he was born to a Muslim father; he acknowledged his Muslim faith with George Stephanopoulus.

Note that he downplays his involvement with Christianity, by not publicly joining a Christian church in D.C. and occasionally attending the chapel for services at Camp David.

He also played down the fact that America is a Christian country and said, unbelievably, that it was one of the largest Muslim nations in the world, which is nonsense.

He has publicly taken the side of the Palestinians in the conflict with Israel and he ignored the National Day of Prayer, something no other President has ever done. He is bad news! He conceals his true faith to the detriment of the American people." --- Jim Murk, Doctor of Philosophy in Middle Eastern Culture & Religion.

ACTIONS speak louder than words.

Another interesting item regarding Sharia Law..

Why has Barack Hussein Obama insisted that the U.S. Attorney General hold the trials of the 911 Muslim Terrorists in Civilian Courts as Common Criminals, instead of as Terrorists, who attacked the United States of America?

If the Muslim Terrorists are tried in Military Tribunals, convicted and sentenced to death, by LAW, Barack Hussein Obama, as President of the United States, would be required to sign their Death Warrants.

He would not be required to sign the death warrants if they are sentenced to death by a Civilian Court.

Recently, Muslim Jihadist, Army Major Hassan slaughtered non-Muslim, soldiers at Ft. Hood, Texas rather than go to Afghanistan and be a part of anything that could lead to the deaths of fellow Muslims.  He stated that Muslims 'could not and should not kill fellow Muslims.'

Is the motive for Barack Obama's insistence on civilian trials, to make sure he doesn't have to sign the death warrants for the Muslim Terrorists? Why would he, as President of the United States, not sign the death warrants for Muslim Terrorists who attacked the United States and murdered over 3,000 U. S. Citizens on 9/11?   Could it be that he is FORBIDDEN by his RELIGION to authorize the execution of Muslims?

Think about that! Open your eyes, ears and mind to who the President is, how he behaves and what he is doing."
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« Reply #7 on: August 25, 2010, 09:51:31 PM »

I just want to see Obama eat a pork bbq sandwich and we call call it off. grin
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« Reply #8 on: August 26, 2010, 07:02:56 AM »

Q. Where did Obama recently tell America to vacation?

a.  The Gulf Coast.

tecumseh>  like most presidents he and family has vacationed in a number of places.  I see he most recently did visit the Gulf Coast.

Q.  Where did Obama and his family go on vacation?

a.  Maine. For two days.

tecumseh>  at least he didn't take off half of his tour of duty as presidents as did GW

Q.  How did they get to Maine?

a.  They flew on Air Force One.

tecumseh> you would rather he take the family  car?  do they have one?

Q.  How did their dog Bo, the Portuguese water dog, get to Maine?

a.  On a separate smaller jet aircraft at the expense of the American taxpayer.

tecumseh> pretty much like every other president has done things in modern time.

 

Q.  Why didn't Bo just stay at the White House for two days?

a.  The children would miss him too terribly much.

tecumseh> I miss mine when she is gone for a day or so?

Q.  Why didn't Bo fly on Air Force One?

a.  Muslims won't fly with unclean animals.  Dogs are considered unclean animals.

tecumseh> certainly you are making this up?  I don't think the muslim bible says anything about the yays or nays of flying. 

there are (as one might suspect) any number of inaccurate half truth in the clip.  evidently the folks that created this bit of drama have figured out the audience that cannot discern facts from misstatement, half truth and yes even outright lies.
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« Reply #9 on: August 26, 2010, 07:37:06 AM »

>>>>there are (as one might suspect) any number of inaccurate half truth in the clip.  evidently the folks that created this bit of drama have figured out the audience that cannot discern facts from misstatement, half truth and yes even outright lies.<<<<

When dealing with politics on either side, is there anything else? I haven't heard much of the "whole" truth from any of them in my life time. You just have to guess which half is true in the half truths.
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« Reply #10 on: August 26, 2010, 08:11:21 AM »

my bro iddee writes:
When dealing with politics on either side, is there anything else?

tecumseh:
Yes I think you are largely correct.    But my question is... who are these folks that produce these videos of 'third hand information' designed around 'guilty by association' methods of attacking a person credibility... why do they do this and what's in it for them.

I am afraid a few of the smoke and mirrows used in the video are somewhat to largely missed by a certain proportion of the american population (let say approximately 18%) 
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« Reply #11 on: August 26, 2010, 09:02:34 AM »

I'm sure he's not a Saudi, and doubt he's a muslim.  But I'm confident he's no Christian.

He's whatever he needs to be to be popular.  So he'll always be something and never be anything.
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« Reply #12 on: August 26, 2010, 10:09:52 AM »

tecumseh  funny observations....if weak....

Quote
Q.  Where did Obama and his family go on vacation?

a.  Maine. For two days.

tecumseh>  at least he didn't take off half of his tour of duty as presidents as did GW

this though...where did this come from?  surely you are not rehashing the lies about GW's guard duty?  that would be to funny.....

i think obama is setting the example of the European lifestyle that he seems to admire so much.  he's enjoying the August vacation.  somewhere in the year he need another 2 weeks to make up the 6....then the 36 hour work week and we are about there.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #13 on: August 26, 2010, 04:57:00 PM »

a tecumseh snip..
his tour of duty as presidents as did GW

I think I would  read this  as 'his  tour of duty as  president' and the fact that GW seemed to have taken about 4 years of vacation during that time when he was president.  how did you interpret that...

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bigbearomaha
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« Reply #14 on: August 26, 2010, 05:01:55 PM »

Presidents don't do "tours" they do "terms" sounded like an attempt to snipe on military duty to me.

Big Bear
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« Reply #15 on: August 26, 2010, 05:10:59 PM »

According to the Dems, he sure accomplished a lot of negatives to have been on vacation so much.

I think Tec just got backed in a corner and threw out anything he could think of.

At least GW wasn't afraid or ashamed to take his wife with him.
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« Reply #16 on: August 26, 2010, 05:20:03 PM »

lies, swipe at military duty and ashamed....  I think some folks are certainly grasping at straws.

as commander in chief why would  you not do a tour of duty?
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« Reply #17 on: August 26, 2010, 05:43:03 PM »

perhaps because even as CIC of the military, he is a civilian?  it's that whole pesky constitution thing again....
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #18 on: August 26, 2010, 05:57:10 PM »

i'd love to see a comparison of the cost of the bush family vacations to the obama vacations.  bet obama has already out spent bush's whole term.  we all need vacations, but you'd think that in this economy a president who wants folks to believe he's a 'man of the people' would rethink the splashy international trips, MV, etc.  seems like some might think he's a little intensive?
bush used to get hammered for going home to TX for a week or two. i think it's fair enough to take a look at the obama vacation schedule...... 
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
bigbearomaha
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« Reply #19 on: August 26, 2010, 07:42:37 PM »

Quote
as commander in chief why would  you not do a tour of duty?

because regardless of his position as commander in Chief of the armed forces, he is not "in" the military.  He is not held to the rules that soldiers are held to.  He is held to the standards and time frame of an elected office.

If and when a sitting president is kicked out of office, it is not considered a "discharge" because he is not subject to military rules as the enlisted or drafted soldier is.

kind of an obvious one there.

Big Bear
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« Reply #20 on: August 26, 2010, 07:49:28 PM »

>>>>as commander in chief why would  you not do a tour of duty?<<<<

That's a good question. Why didn't our CIC do a tour of duty? At least our last one did do some...
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« Reply #21 on: August 27, 2010, 08:18:47 AM »

I think perhaps some folks are conspiring with me here to make my point directly..   which is a lot of folks seem unable or incapable to look into any set of data and come to any level analysis of what the data actually means (or doesn't mean... but that is another conversation).  the basic question here being the mote... that is when is the blemish in someone else's eye and when does it reside in your own eyes???

a small snip...
But I'm confident he's no Christian.

tecumseh:
so what authority get to affirm that Mr Obama is a christian?  sounds more than a bit high handed to me unless you can point to some evidence that Mr Obama doesn't speak or act in some unchristian manner and in some regular fashion.  this act of 'JUDGING' would seem to me to qualify the person for unchristian status?Huh  I seem to recall the CHRIST said something about that directly??? 

or most definitely this little jewel..
surely you are not rehashing the lies about GW's guard duty?

tecumseh:
well I wasn't really planning on going there, but since you brought up the little topic let's see what you KNOW???
 
so what kind of evidence do you have that would make you BELIEVE* that mr bush completed or didn't complete his military contract without reservations???  show us what you got... show us your evidence.

and then a question:

If you did personally see his military attendance record directly, could you say yes he did or no he did not fully performed his military contract?  I would guess?Huh most folks could  not.

seem to me??? (old grey matter being always subject to error and the great heat making cpu failure always a likely hood) that what I can recall of the incident is the little lady stated quite plainly that the memo did represent the feeling of the officer who supposedly wrote the report in regards to mr bush's non performance.  she (the secretary/typist) then stated quite plainly that she had not personally typed the memo.  this 'yes it was how the officer felt in regards to mr bush's performance is now twisted to the lie status.  a curious twist yes?

I should also say that at one time I did a portion of my own military DUTY at a reserver training base where Mr Bush was assigned.  In this 'real life' example Mr Bush was not at his duty station. This evidence is neither secondhand nor hearsay.

*there is (or at least should be) a recognizable difference between what one knows and what one believes.  I would guess there is often times little discrimination in the use of these two terms.

ps.... if you desired to have a bit larger understanding of the islamic foe we are confronted with and don't wish to manufacture blow up monsters where monster don't exist then I might recommend you read 'the forbidden truth and the failed search for ben laden' (sp?Huh always a problem for me but if you are interested in understanding I suspect you will have no problem locating the little book in any new or used book store).  the book has a number of insights not only in regards to islamic culture but also our own hand in this little drama.

   

 
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« Reply #22 on: August 27, 2010, 09:28:29 AM »

According to the Pew Research Poll, of the 18% of people that believe that Obama is Muslim, 60% got this information from the media.

If I were Michelle, I might not want to go to Saudi Arabia either. I've travelled on business to the UAE--a very Westernized Middle Eastern nation--and as a woman it was odd to say the least. I stood out like a sore thumb. They didn't know what to do with a woman. Bathrooms were a particular embarrassment, as one place didn't even have a woman's bathroom. Luckily (!) our conference room was bugged, and as my colleague and I were trying to figure out what I was going to do about the lack of a door on the (men's) toilet--he was trying not to laugh as he refused to guard the entrance--the British secretary came running down the hall and said, "Oh yes, when I first got here I said this would not do at all, not at all! Come with me, I had this toilet installed soon after arriving." In Egypt, the bathroom was a stall in the kitchen. Try taking a 35 hour trip then having to use a stall in the kitchen the next day at work with your work colleagues making coffee. Talk about embarrassing.

I tried to not stand out, dressed conservatively. And they let me do my job. In Saudi Arabia, they would not have let me do any kind of work. And I would have had to wear long dresses and head coverings and wouldn't be allowed to drive or go anywhere without my husband. Michelle may not travel to Saudi Arabia because she can't agree to those conditions. Not to mention the fact that it's very dangerous. They have their children to think about.
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« Reply #23 on: August 27, 2010, 11:37:49 AM »

Quote
If you did personally see his military attendance record directly, could you say yes he did or no he did not fully performed his military contract?  I would guess?Huh most folks could  not.

You would guess?  that means you have sen that record?  You have first hand information on that, or are you doing the same thing you are accusing others of?

Quote
In this 'real life' example Mr Bush was not at his duty station. This evidence is neither secondhand nor hearsay.

So you are implying that there was no good reason for him to not be at his "duty station" at that time because you were privy to the details of the information his superior officers had as to if it were an excused or not excused absence.  Or are you simply implying again?

Personally,  I don't really care as  I wasn't a fan of bush's either. didn't vote for him.  You seem to have an agenda though much the same as you accuse others of and all it boils down to here it seems s more partisan game playing, trying to make the other team look worse than your team but neither team is actually trying to improve their product or performance.

just make themselves the lesser of two evils.

If you really insist on supporting that, no wonder  I don't agree with you.

you're just as much a game player as the partisan politicians.

in simple words, what  I see from you is the pot calling the kettle black.

Big Bear
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« Reply #24 on: August 27, 2010, 11:41:40 AM »

http://old.nationalreview.com/york/york200402180840.asp

took me a while to find this.  thank god for archiving.  didn't want to have to look all this stuff up myself  grin

the majority of the opinion about bush's service came from a series of salon.com articles.  they were started before the records were released and continued with the same theme after.  

i, too, served part of my time in the reserve.  i know how points are assigned and what reservists do.  looks to me like the worst thing he did was skip a physical....which made no difference in his flight time, as he was not flying at the time.  it only made a difference in his flight status which could have been rectified at any time, if  he were needed, with a physical.
now....if we kicked everyone out who skipped a physical, i'm betting we would be really short on officers.  they go to great lengths to avoid them.  if we kicked everyone out who 'flex drilled' we'd have no doctors or nurses as they are notorious for cramming all drills into blocks of time rather than showing up monthly.

as bush did, i asked for, and received an early discharge from the last contract.  

hmmm....to bad the courts don't want to order ALL presidents records releases.  that could be interesting.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #25 on: August 27, 2010, 07:05:14 PM »

nice story winginit... I liked that.

and to bigbearomaha let me apologize and assure him directly I really have no agenda. I do have question from time to time.  that is all they are... all they represent.  perhaps 'something' to encourage a bit of conversation with a fellow citizen if they are so inclined.

national review.... unimpeachable source for sure.  and an opinion piece from 'THE MEDIA'. 

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bigbearomaha
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« Reply #26 on: August 27, 2010, 07:24:05 PM »

 I notice you didn't answer the questions though.

This is just a chat room,  I take nothing personal this is just 'fun' chat for me for the most part and I like to play devils advocate as much as anyone else.

No need to apologize to me, in the end, all i really care about here is the bees and the government staying out of my way enough to keep working with them.

(and when it comes to government in general, the more they stay out of the way, the better.)

As I have said elsewhere, the only thing these partisan sniping games accomplish to me is to show how willing people are to accept lowlife scum in our government as long as they are part of the same club.

Big Bear

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« Reply #27 on: August 27, 2010, 07:39:11 PM »

Quote
national review.... unimpeachable source for sure.  and an opinion piece from 'THE MEDIA'. 


as were the stories from salon.com.  the difference is the Yorks numbers can be checked.  salons rantings were purely partisan.

where was the same outrage over the Clinton draft letter and the Kerry band aids?  none to be heard from the left.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

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« Reply #28 on: August 30, 2010, 08:17:03 AM »

bigbearomaha writes:
I notice you didn't answer the questions though.

This is just a chat room,  I take nothing personal this is just 'fun' chat for me for the most part and I like to play devils advocate as much as anyone else.

tecumseh:
sorry about the over looked question.

like yourself I am more comfortable playing devil's advocate to the left and right and trying not to be run over while standing here in the middle of the road.  sadly most folks who have positioned themselves 'out there' where the flat earth suddenly ends don't ever recognize their own precarious position.  in my mind most folks who take the purist position at the right or left (RINO vs DINO) really haven't figured where their view will invariable lead.

and to answer your question directly 1) yes I have seen Mr Bush attendance record and 2) given that I did personnel records in the US Navy I kind of know what his attendance record reflects.

another kathyp snip..
as were the stories from salon.com.  the difference is the Yorks numbers can be checked.  salons rantings were purely partisan.

tecumseh:
thanks for reinforcing my main talking point.

Logged

I am 'the panther that passes in the night'... tecumseh.
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