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Author Topic: Harvesting honey using this method  (Read 3593 times)
montauk170
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« on: August 18, 2010, 01:12:44 PM »

Saw this on youtube from Backwards. Does anyone cut the capped honey combs out like Kirk does, right next to the hive and put the frames back?
Any negatives with this method?
Seems like less mess in the kitchen.
Putting the frames back I know the bees will clean up the dripping honey but will there be issues, aside from ants?

Backwards Beekeepers TV: The Honey Harvest
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Finski
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« Reply #1 on: August 18, 2010, 01:25:30 PM »

.
A guy looses 50% of yield when bees make new combs. Mad man.
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hardwood
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« Reply #2 on: August 18, 2010, 02:14:43 PM »

If you tried that during a dearth or in a crowded bee yard you would set off a robbing incident of EPIC proportions...EPIC I tell ya.

Scott
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iddee
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« Reply #3 on: August 18, 2010, 02:17:54 PM »

Add that to the amount of uncapped comb he harvested, and he will have some nice mead in about a week.
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« Reply #4 on: August 18, 2010, 02:27:03 PM »

.
a guy looses 50% of yield when bees make new combs. Mad man.


Educate me? How so?
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HomeBru
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« Reply #5 on: August 18, 2010, 02:34:48 PM »

.
a guy looses 50% of yield when bees make new combs. Mad man.

Finski, do you have any empirical evidence for that claim? I ask only because I've seen claims of from little cost to over 75% cost for cut comb/crush and strain.

The only scientific discussions I've seen on the topic point to a MUCH lower effect.

J-
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AllenF
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« Reply #6 on: August 18, 2010, 03:59:05 PM »

To produce their wax, bees must consume about eight times as much honey by mass.
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HomeBru
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« Reply #7 on: August 18, 2010, 04:30:45 PM »

To produce their wax, bees must consume about eight times as much honey by mass.

mean of 8.4 lbs according to Whitcomb (1946)

And, One pound of wax supports about 22 lbs of honey. (From Beeswax Production, Harvesting, Processing and Products, Coggshall and Morse pg 41)

Therefore, spending eight pounds of honey, nets 22 pounds of honey storage. Thats a 36% difference but it's also not including the capping wax lost if you extract. We might be able to drop that to 33%-35%?

Consider also that Whitcomb (1946) found a tendency for wax production to become more efficient as time progressed. A hive raised on crush-and-strain or cut comb may then produce wax even more efficiently, maybe down to a 20%-25% loss?

Figure in your expense for extracting, time difference including setup and cleanup, equipment depreciation and my calculator just fried. grin grin

I'm GUESSING that there's a harvest volume in there somewhere that "justifies" extraction -vs- comb removal...

I'm hoping that someone can provide more studies beyond the two above that I "borrowed" off of Michael Bush's web site.

J-
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Jim 134
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« Reply #8 on: August 18, 2010, 05:07:48 PM »

HomeBru ......


Hint

   You can  harvest AND SELL the bees wax. On a 10 frame Med. (6 5/8")  you wil get about 2lbs.of bees wax.



    BEE HAPPY Jim 134  Smiley
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« Reply #9 on: August 18, 2010, 05:09:09 PM »

Wow!  That is a lot of expended food and energy to make the wax, why would someone crush and strain?  I have seen a homemade spinner made from 2by4's and a garbage bag and drill on utube.
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kathyp
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« Reply #10 on: August 18, 2010, 05:23:02 PM »

it is true that they have to remake the wax, but they have to if you do cut comb also.  crush and strain is a good method for someone only doing a small amount of honey.  it's quick and efficient.  bees make comb.  they have no problem making more.  they do it in the hive to expand the area for brood and storage all the time.
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« Reply #11 on: August 18, 2010, 05:25:58 PM »

For a small producer, crush and strain is cheaper and takes less space/specialized equipment.  And some people like to use/sell the wax as well.
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bigbearomaha
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« Reply #12 on: August 18, 2010, 05:44:42 PM »

crush and strain works well for those with top bar hives because you aren't pulling as many combs from any one given hive usually as you are from a box/frame hive like the langstroth hives.

Bees are pretty efficient and quick at drawing out new comb and it helps keep the rotation of old comb moving out of the hive faster.  giving the bees fresh wax for brood rearing much more often.

All in all, if you only look at honey production, one can see some concern, but as part of whole hive health and small, consistent honey production, crush and strain is my choice.

Big Bear
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CountryBee
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« Reply #13 on: August 18, 2010, 05:50:56 PM »

Thanks for all the info and points of view!  New brood new comb does sound good and healthy.  A lot of ideas to think about, thanks, Country Smiley
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slacker361
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« Reply #14 on: August 18, 2010, 06:05:58 PM »

so with all this in mind, would ross rounds be better than cut comb? of course better meaning you wouldnt have to make the bees works as hard and that way they can collect more honey
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kathyp
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« Reply #15 on: August 18, 2010, 06:13:48 PM »

how would they not have to work as hard?  i have heard that ross rounds are a trick to use. do some research on them before you spend the money.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
AllenF
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« Reply #16 on: August 18, 2010, 07:32:58 PM »

I would be worried about robbing to start with.   I know when feeding, they get stirred up and they do end up in the syrup bucket.  I second would worry about all that uncapped honey went into that bucket.   And I guess the crushed and strained all the bees that ended up in that bucket also. 
On the other hand, that was a steep hill and hauling 40 pound boxes down the hill would have been a pain,  but not that much for me.
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kathyp
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« Reply #17 on: August 18, 2010, 07:58:45 PM »

don't think i'd do it at the hives.  that would be a mess.  wouldn't worry to much about the bees that die in it though.  when you take the honey comb and junk from a cutout you get some dead bees in it.  i pick them out before i crush and then strain out the odd bits that are left behind.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #18 on: August 18, 2010, 08:29:33 PM »

HomeBru ......


Hint

   You can  harvest AND SELL the bees wax. On a 10 frame Med. (6 5/8")  you wil get about 2lbs.of bees wax.



    BEE HAPPY Jim 134  Smiley


Yep! I'm just getting started and already have a few folks eagerly waiting "real" beeswax for their soaps, candles, and homeopathic stuff.

J-
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bigbearomaha
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« Reply #19 on: August 18, 2010, 08:32:47 PM »

it all depends on how you prepare for it.

 I use a wagon the pails sit on  (or a box/empty hive with a lid)

It's then easy enough to cut the comb into the pail(s) after brushing bees from said comb and placing lid on right away.

Some bees sometimes still find their way into the pail but they are removed easily enough before crushing.

if you anticipate having multiple pails, the wagon makes for an easy trip.

those gardeners wagons with all terrain tires are great for this.

Big Bear
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