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Author Topic: Basic Question from a newbie  (Read 3523 times)
jgarzasr
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« on: May 23, 2005, 01:52:27 PM »

I installed my packaged bees exactly one week ago today - I have waited the 7 days to give the Queen time to be accepted - now I would like to check on them - however the weather here is a rainy day - should I wait or is it ok to check on the Bees?  Also - another question I have is that when I installed my package of bees - I placed the Queen cage in between two frames - and left one frame out - total 9 frames installed.  My plan was to install the remaining frame when I checked on the Queen.  Another Beekeeper said I shouldn't have done that because now I may have "cross comb".  Am I going to have a problem....  Thanks for any info.
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Michael Bush
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« Reply #1 on: May 23, 2005, 02:20:58 PM »

>I installed my packaged bees exactly one week ago today - I have waited the 7 days to give the Queen time to be accepted

Is she in a cage with the candy exposed?  Already released?

> now I would like to check on them - however the weather here is a rainy day - should I wait or is it ok to check on the Bees?

How rainy?  How soon will it clear up?  You CAN check on them when it's rainy, but they will be in a much better mood on a sunny day.

>Also - another question I have is that when I installed my package of bees - I placed the Queen cage in between two frames - and left one frame out - total 9 frames installed. My plan was to install the remaining frame when I checked on the Queen. Another Beekeeper said I shouldn't have done that because now I may have "cross comb". Am I going to have a problem....

It won't be the end of the world.  But probably you will.  Have an empty frame handy and if the extra comb (hanging from the queen cage is my guess) has brood in it you can tie it into the empty frame and put it back in the center.  After the queen cage is out push all the frames tightly together in the center.  I tend to put the queen cage on top of the bars and use an imire shim to make enough room for the queen cage.
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Michael Bush
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« Reply #2 on: May 23, 2005, 02:22:28 PM »

Most definately.

There is a 110% change that the bees have filled the space with natural comb verse drawing out foundation.  There is an equal chance that any eggs the queen has laid will be in this comb as well.  

Lesson learned.  Always make sure frames of foundation are kept tightly against one another,  otherwise the bees will build their own comb, which is a big waste of time and energy.
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jgarzasr
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« Reply #3 on: May 23, 2005, 02:34:43 PM »

So I am going to go ahead and plan on opening the hive today then and check to see if the Queen has been released.  If there is Cross Comb - do I just remove it and then install the remaining frame  - keeping all ten evenly as spaced as possible?  When I first picked up the package of bees I had planned on making sure I put all ten frames in - but another bee keeper told me to do it the way I ended up doing it - never once mentioning anything about "cross comb".  There is so much conflicting ways of doing things - It seems I always learn the hard way.  I guess my main question here is - do I just take out any extra comb the bees may have started making that is not drawn out from the frames?  Thanks for the replies.
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Jerrymac
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« Reply #4 on: May 23, 2005, 02:53:58 PM »

Push the frames together tightly leaving any extra space to one side. If there is brood in the extra comb and you can save it by tying it into a frame that's what I would do. If not cut out all the unwanted comb it will only make a big mess of the hive.
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jgarzasr
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« Reply #5 on: May 23, 2005, 03:34:24 PM »

I guess I am not sure what you mean by "tying it into a frame"  - Sorry but if you could give a little more detail.  I have never even opened a active bee hive in my life - this is all new to me....
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« Reply #6 on: May 23, 2005, 03:46:55 PM »

Take an empty frame (no foundation)  and place the "cross comb" into it.  Put a couple of rubber bands around the frame to hold the comb in place.  Put this frame in between the frames you removed the comb from.  Make sure all frames are tightly grouped together.  Leave any extra space on the ends between the side walls.
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Chad S
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« Reply #7 on: May 23, 2005, 03:50:03 PM »

For now maybe you should wait to see if you have any cross comb, and if there is any brood in before you worry to much about it.  Focus on making sure the queen is release, and that the bees are drawing out comb.  Add you tenth frame, and push them together leaving equal spacing on either ends of the row of frames.  If you have cross comb just cut it away from the foundation, and remove it.  I removed two very beautiful wild combs this spring from my hives both had nothing in them.  I gave them to my five year old for show and tell at school.  What the others are talking about is taking a wild comb using wire or rubber bands to hold the comb in a frame.  The bees will attach the comb to the frame and use it.  Generally the wild comb is used by the bees to produce drones.  So if all you did was remove any wild comb and set it aside you would be just fine.
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jgarzasr
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« Reply #8 on: May 23, 2005, 03:55:49 PM »

Thanks for all the replies - that clerifies it.  I am Looking forward to openeing the hive and hopefully seeing an empty queen cage.. with the Queen alive and active!
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Michael Bush
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« Reply #9 on: May 23, 2005, 04:38:44 PM »

http://www.kohala.net/bees/capture/tying.html

Or you can build one of these:

http://www.beesource.com/plans/swarmfrm.pdf

and use them like this:

http://www.beesource.com/plans/scf/index.htm
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Michael Bush
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Apis629
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« Reply #10 on: May 23, 2005, 04:45:52 PM »

Just remember if you do use a swarm frame to orrient the cells correctly.  It sure would be a shame to have the cells oriented up-side-down and have any nectar or brood fall out.
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Michael Bush
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« Reply #11 on: May 23, 2005, 05:30:03 PM »

The brood won't fall out, the queen cells are actually upside down and they don't fall out, but the queen won't like to lay in it.  In my experience the bees will fill it with honey anyway even if it's upside down.

http://www.bushfarms.com/images/BurrOnGlass.JPG
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Michael Bush
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Apis629
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« Reply #12 on: May 23, 2005, 09:59:12 PM »

Ok...I guess you right.  But I do know that a high moisture nectar probebly would fall out.
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Robo
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« Reply #13 on: May 24, 2005, 08:41:11 AM »

Quote from: Apis629
Ok...I guess you right.  But I do know that a high moisture nectar probebly would fall out.


Doubtful.  The surface tension will  hold it into the cells.   I have taken and filled a frame with just water and left it inverted overnight and it did not run out.

There was a discussion a while back about placing a neglected highly burred super upside down in an effort to get the queen to move up into a new super.   Some claimed all the honey and nectar would run out and make a mess.  That is what drove me to do the water experiement.
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Michael Bush
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« Reply #14 on: May 24, 2005, 09:15:31 AM »

I've watched the bees use the surface tension to fill upside down cells in the burr on the glass of my observation hive.  It's facinating to watch.
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Michael Bush
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jgarzasr
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« Reply #15 on: May 24, 2005, 02:28:09 PM »

Well I opened up the hive yesterday - and in fact there was a huge amount of Cross comb - I cut it out to my dismay.  They must have been working hard this week.  The comb I cut out was about the size of a frame - there was no brood in it but lots of sugar stores and some pollen - the bees were is a pretty angry off mood which I expected.  I checked for the queen cage and she was out - I however could not find her.  I put the extra frame in evenly spaced them together and closed up.  I would still like to locate the Queen to make sure all is good - how soon should I check on this hive again to make sure there is Brood.  I also am do to get another package of bees tomorrow - this time I plan on making sure I have all the frames in.  I hate learning from mistakes - but like someone stated above - it is not the end of the world.  If any of you can offer me some advise or any info - I would appreciate it.  Thanks for all the replies... I really right now with what I know - feel like I don't know what the hell I am doing!
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Robo
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« Reply #16 on: May 24, 2005, 02:42:58 PM »

Quote from: jgarzasr
 I put the extra frame in evenly spaced them together and closed up.


Not sure what you mean by "evenly spaced them together",  but they need to be tight (end bar against end bar) with and additional space left on the outsides (between last frame and wall).  Hopefully that is what you did.
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Apis629
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« Reply #17 on: May 24, 2005, 04:50:49 PM »

Darn't, I don't know anything about how bees store honey Sad .  Oh well, I'll just do more reading!
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Michael Bush
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« Reply #18 on: May 24, 2005, 05:54:27 PM »

Evenly spaced is a nice goal for 9 drawn combs in the supers.  10 frames tigthly together in the center is the goal for the brood nest or undrawn foundation in the supers.
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Michael Bush
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newguy
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« Reply #19 on: May 24, 2005, 06:12:03 PM »

Smiley jgarzasr,
you sound like me. i barely know the differance between a frame and a super. but i installed my package bees 4 weeks ago and i have quickly become more familiar with all of the jargon. im starting to realize that i was worrying to much about everything and im just going let happen whatever is going to happen, while still trying to things the right way.
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« Reply #20 on: May 24, 2005, 08:22:10 PM »

Quote from: newguy
im starting to realize that i was worrying to much about everything and im just going let happen whatever is going to happen, while still trying to things the right way.

Excellent attitude.  Beekeeping is meant to be fun and relaxing.  Bees are pretty resilient and unless you really "abuse" them, you will do fine.  So have fun,  learn from your mistakes and enjoy the exerience.  Let's face it, if it becomes a chore,  you'll stop doing it.

Just remember, everyone started as a newbee,  unfortunately, some of us didn't have the internet to tell us what we were doing wrong and it took us longer to figure it out.  So although it might seem overwhelming at times and feel like everything you do is wrong don't get fustrated.  You will be up to speed in no time.
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