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Author Topic: Bad feeling about this hive...  (Read 2180 times)
winginit
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« on: July 12, 2010, 01:20:01 PM »

Chilled brood or foulbrood? On my last inspection, I went from worried to horrified to hopeful.

As a reminder, this is a new package installed May 26, mostly foundationless, and I have been feeding steadily ever since. All equipment is new. The new comb was a mess and I had to cut it out and move it around. May have ended up with some chilled brood due to that process. Hive is in a valley, not at the low point but it has rained a LOT this year.

1. Hive has two mediums, with about 7 frames each filled out, but much of the comb is empty. I was ready to add a medium but they were far from ready.
2. No honey stores. Plenty of pollen.
3. Queen is laying like mad.
4. A lot of dark cells. I took many pictures, just a few posted below. However, I used the sun instead of the flash for light, so maybe the darkness is photography issue? Still, I can see small dark larvae next to small light larvae.
5. Lots of bad brood pattern. I didn't expect it to all be pretty as I had to move comb around a lot to get the early mess straightened out...but I did expect to see some nice patterns by now. And I've never seen cells that looked that dark. But then again, I'm a newbee.

I can't post pictures through Imageshack, try though I might. So sorry but have to request that you go to my beeblog, where I've posted lots of pictures.  http://hilltopbee.blogspot.com/
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kathyp
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« Reply #1 on: July 12, 2010, 02:52:00 PM »

nice fat queen.

i wish i could have zoomed in on your pics a little, but what i see looks good. you might have some concave brood caps.  did you notice that, or is it just the angle of the camera?  i suspect that the darker cells are those that have already had bees hatch out and are being reused.  it looks like your queen is doing a good job of filling back in as spaces open.  brood comb gets darker as it is reused.  on 3 and 4 it looks like they have some honey and pollen above the brood and some on the last pic also.

that's about the best i can do with those pics, but i don't see anything on those that would cause me concern.  if there are sections that look concave, watch to see if the bees pull that brood.  if that brood comes out ok, i think you are in good shape.

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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
AllenF
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« Reply #2 on: July 12, 2010, 03:49:34 PM »

Less than 2 months old.   I think your hive looks good.
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hardwood
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« Reply #3 on: July 12, 2010, 04:17:34 PM »

It was had to tell without the ability to zoom in, buy everything looked good to me!

Scott
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"In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person's becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag...We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language...And we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."

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winginit
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« Reply #4 on: July 12, 2010, 05:13:41 PM »

Kathy--That's not honey, it's the grey brood.  Sad  You can see a bee hatching out in the third picture (towards the bottom of the grey area). And it does look more concave than the brighter yellow brood.

I've fixed the pictures so you can zoom in. Blogspot is such a pain. Just random how those pictures are going to act. After struggling with the html for an hour, just removed the text and only posted four pictures. It's not pretty, but you can zoom in on the pictures by clicking on them.
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winginit
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« Reply #5 on: July 12, 2010, 05:16:05 PM »

fyi, click on the picture to select it, then click on it again to zoom. You should get very large images.
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kathyp
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« Reply #6 on: July 12, 2010, 05:24:42 PM »

ahhhh  much better

looks like you have some funky brood in that same section that is not capped. looks kind of grayish. you might have a little foul brood in there, or something else that has damaged those bits. even so, the brood overall looks pretty good.  i'd just keep an eye on it all and see what happens.  if that's the only bad stuff and if new brood doesn't look like that, it's probably not going to be a big deal.

couldn't enlarge the last pic, but that's ok.  
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
winginit
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« Reply #7 on: July 12, 2010, 05:46:25 PM »

Yah! Thanks so much Kathy.
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kathyp
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« Reply #8 on: July 12, 2010, 06:05:00 PM »

stand by for other opinions.  do not take my evaluation as gospel  grin
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
annette
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« Reply #9 on: July 12, 2010, 06:44:05 PM »

It sure looks good to me.
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hardwood
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« Reply #10 on: July 12, 2010, 06:51:45 PM »

Thank winginit! I still don't see much wrong (but I can be blind at times). I think what I'm seeing as grey might be due to lighting? It looks pretty strong otherwise.

Scott
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"In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person's becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag...We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language...And we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."

Theodore Roosevelt 1907
AllenF
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« Reply #11 on: July 12, 2010, 07:34:53 PM »

Still looks good to me.   The grey looking brood seem to be in the shadow of the capped brood around it.  I think it all looks fine.
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Scadsobees
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« Reply #12 on: July 13, 2010, 09:21:18 AM »

What I think is what the others refer to as "grey" brood -

That is actually more mature capped brood, getting ready to hatch out.  The brood starts out with lighter opaque cappings, all wax.  Then the larvae spins a cocoon and that darkens it a bit, then as the pupae matures it gets darker until it is ready to hatch out.  Plus I think that the outside bees start stripping wax off of the top, leaving less wax and more cocoon. 

What happens is the queen lays all the comb that is available, then moves to the next frame as the bees continue to draw the comb out, then when more comb is there she'll lay the next patch up, so you end up with different aged capped brood on the same comb with a distinct line where the older and newer meet.

So when you see capped brood of darker color on newer comb, it just means it is going to hatch out sooner.  Once the comb matures and all turns dark it is harder to see that.

The cappings can range from slightly domed to slightly concave as well, depending on the age of the pupae.

I don't see anything wrong for a hive that has gone through that type of trauma.
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Rick
kathyp
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« Reply #13 on: July 13, 2010, 09:36:09 AM »

scads, you have a good eye.  look at frame 3 just north and east of center.  that looks like some abnormal, uncapped brood to me.  that's also in the section of questionable brood.  i'll defer to your younger eyes  smiley
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
JP
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« Reply #14 on: July 13, 2010, 09:52:30 AM »

Looks normal to me.


...JP
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winginit
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« Reply #15 on: July 13, 2010, 12:08:32 PM »

I wondered if the grey color was from older cappings--first hint was the two bees emerging. I'm glad no one is worried about the dark larvae in the first picture. Funny that my other, older hive doesn't have this darker hue yet, but maybe it's related to the foundationless or to lighting.

The other issue is that there is almost no capped honey. I have been feeding steadily since starting this hive in late May, but they are sitting in a field with clover. My other hive started one month earlier, so it's not fair to compare, but the first hive has a lot more honey (not enought to even think of taking any!).

If they are getting pollen, why no nectar? I would think if there's pollen, there's nectar. But maybe they use up the nectar/honey faster than the pollen?

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JP
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« Reply #16 on: July 14, 2010, 12:17:00 AM »

Even in a dearth pollen seems to be readily available to them.


...JP
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