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Author Topic: turning hive to 90 degrees  (Read 7822 times)
Beth Kirkley
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« on: March 31, 2004, 12:23:39 PM »

I thought I had posted on this a couple days ago, after seeing that Robo has theirs turned this way.....but the post never showed. ?? So here goes. Smiley

Like I said, Robo apparently has their hives this way, and I'm really interested in hearing more info on it. I've only seen one site that mentions this tecnique, but I'm interesting in trying it on the next hives I build.

I'd love to hear any info about this. What are some of the benefits? Other than you can reach the frames a little easier from the back.

Another tecnique I've heard of that interest me is this: to place two supers, side by side, on the bottom. Then a third super above this, directly in the middle. You have to make two small lids to cover the ends of the bottom supers so rain can't get in. I read that the bees will still use the "center" of this whole area, and actually end up storing more honey than usual in the spaces to the sides of the two bottom supers. I'd like to try this also. I would think that this design would also offer the advantage of stealing honey from the bottom sides very easily (by lifting the little lids) without disturbing the whole hive and exposing the brood.
 smiley What does anyone think of this idea?

I'd very much like to experiment this year, or atleast the next. I don't know if I'll be able to split my hives any more this year. I'll just have to see.

Beth
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Robo
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« Reply #1 on: March 31, 2004, 04:15:18 PM »

Beth,

I 'm an engineer by trade and an experimenter at heart.  Perhaps that is why I like beekeeping so much,  plenty of experimenting options.

I never did like the fact that my hives always had moldy outer frames in the spring, and attributed it to poor ventilation. So in an attempt to find a better mouse trap, I ended up buying a modification kit from David Eyre (www.beeworks.com) since one of his main points in developing the D.E. hive was to improve ventilation.  One of the things the modification kit did was rotate the hive 90 degrees.  I don't know how much this aided in the ventilation,  but I definitely noticed a difference in bee demeanor when working the hive.  With the normal Langstroth,  you end up working from the side of the hive and are visible to the front of the hive and the bees go on alert when they see you moving around.  With the hive rotated 90, you work from the back and are undetected.
I kind of liked it, since some of my hives sit side by side, it is impossible to work from the side and I was always struggling trying to manipulate from the back anyway.  I think it comes down to person preference.  Like my dad always says " If everyone liked vanilla, they wouldn't make chocolate".  One thing that I have changed in David's design is the bottom board.  David believes in a solid bottom board with a dead air space below.  I have elected to go with a SBB with a wood drawer to use for mite drop measurements and for winter closure.

I have also seen the double wide hive that you explained, but my concern with that is with the bee movement to stores in the winter,  I think it is more natural for the bees to progress upward than to move sideways.  Not to mention the extra details needed to make the half cover and prevent them from leaking.  I felt the potential gain was not worth the effort.

If you are looking for something to experiment with on your current hives, you might want to consider Housel positioning.  It basically has to do with how your combs are installed.  If you look closely at your foundation, you will notice a 'Y' in the bottom of the cell.  One side of the foundation has a 'Y' and the other has and inverted (upside down) Y.  From studying feral bees,  it has been observed that the inverted side tends to face the center of the hive.  Here is a link with the details.
http://www.beekeeping.com/articles/us/housel_positioning.htm

I plan on giving it a try this year (once it is warm enough to do some major manipulations).  Seems pretty easy to do, and I figure it can't hurt.

FYI... If I was just starting out, I would definitely give the D.E. hive a shot, but since I have so much langstroth equipment it is just not feasible.  I think David has some pretty good design points.

Disclaimer - I have no affiliation to David Eyre other than as a satisfied customer.  Both David and his wife are very pleasant to deal with and I wouldn't hesitate recommending them.  Even though they are in Canada, their prices are very competitive, if not cheaper and faster delivery than some of the US companies.


Rob....
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Beth Kirkley
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« Reply #2 on: March 31, 2004, 04:56:02 PM »

I think that is exactly where I saw the info before. I read it all over again, though. Great site. Gets me excited to try it out......make some changes. Hmmmm.....wish I had some wood. Smiley
Have to get a little extra this weekend when I go get supplies for the squirrel cage.
Then maybe later this summer I can brag on an increase in honey.

Smiley
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Agility Mom
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« Reply #3 on: March 31, 2004, 06:23:32 PM »

I read the description of the hive modification kit. It would seem that you could modify your own bottom board. The top part looks like a slightly larger hive body with holes cut in it for ventilation. Is there something more inside? Is the inner cover drastically different from the regular inside cover?

It does seem like a good idea.
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Judy
Beth Kirkley
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« Reply #4 on: March 31, 2004, 07:48:37 PM »

I had forgotten to go read on the other site you mentioned: http://www.beekeeping.com/articles/us/housel_positioning.htm.

Now that is fasinating! I didn't realize there were different ways to position the foundation. I feel like I need to go fix the hive up ASAP for those girls!
I've had all the problems happen that they mentioned in that article:
  -Queens not laying in inserted drawn combs placed into the broodnest
  -Excessively bulged/drawn-out honey combs with the next frame either burred or hardly drawn
  -Bees refuse to move up into next higher box/super of either drawn frames or new foundation
  -Odd frames of foundation not drawn and/or bees sidewinding
  -Burred foundation or overlayed foundation
  -Transitional combs containing various cell sizes are built
  -Queens are suddenly raised at wrong times of the active year causing swarming problems

It makes me wonder if it had to do with my own ignorance to the proper wild positioning. I've got some work to do I guess.......checking the frames and foundation, and repositioning where needed.

These bees are just so interesting. I'm learning much more about all this, and it's great.

Beth Smiley
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« Reply #5 on: March 31, 2004, 08:12:43 PM »

Quote from: Judy Frey
I read the description of the hive modification kit. It would seem that you could modify your own bottom board. The top part looks like a slightly larger hive body with holes cut in it for ventilation. Is there something more inside? Is the inner cover drastically different from the regular inside cover?


Dave does a good job giving you enough details to see the benefit, but not showing enough details so that you can copy it.  That is why I ended up buying one (good business man I guess).  
But yes, there is nothing difficult in building it yourself, that is what I have done.  If you can build a normal hive, you can build the modification kit.
 
Instead of confusing you by trying to explain the pieces,  I'll try to take some pictures this weekend (weather permitting).

Robo...
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Agility Mom
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« Reply #6 on: March 31, 2004, 08:44:51 PM »

Robo, that would be great! I was trying to describe it to my husband but realized that I didn't have enough detail to answer his construction questions.
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Judy
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« Reply #7 on: April 26, 2004, 03:10:40 AM »

Quote
I'd love to hear any info about this. What are some of the benefits? Other than you can reach the frames a little easier from the back.

Beth, have you seen this?  http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman/cwww.html  I have seen more that Dave Cushman has written on this subject but I, don't remember where, probably on a Yahoo! group.
George
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« Reply #8 on: April 27, 2004, 10:33:51 AM »

George,

So if I'm reading this correctly, the traditional langstroth hive is what he calls the cold way?


Robo....
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mattoleriver
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« Reply #9 on: April 27, 2004, 07:51:28 PM »

Quote
So if I'm reading this correctly, the traditional langstroth hive is what he calls the cold way?

Yep, that's the way I understand it.  Here's a little bit more http://website.lineone.net/~d.cushman/t266.html and still more (posts 21-30)  http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/Beesgroup/
George
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BigRog
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« Reply #10 on: June 20, 2004, 02:34:32 PM »

Now that I am about to have a hive, Thank you John, I am trying to learn more faster. My first observation is that all beekeepers should have and use a digital camera.
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Beth Kirkley
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« Reply #11 on: June 20, 2004, 02:55:06 PM »

Oh yes Roger, read all you can now. It'll benefit you in the long run. There are different ways people keep bees, sometimes just because that's what they were taught. Other times it's because they've tried it and it worked for them. Two really fasinating things I've learned over this year are: (this topic) warm vs cold way, and making sure your frames are in the housel postion http://www.beekeeping.com/articles/us/housel_positioning.htm. I have my hives in what is refered to as the warm way (like a DE hive & like a top bar hive). I happen to like it because it is easier to look at the frames from the back of the hive, and lift them straight up rather than twisting your body. Now sure, you can stand at the side of the hive and lift them straight up. For some reason though, standing in the back is just more comfortable. Maybe it's because there are fewer bees in my face that are trying to come on the front entrance. And I'm working on getting the frames all set in the right direction for the housel positioning, and marking one side with an arrow so I always place them back correctly.

Beth
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« Reply #12 on: June 20, 2004, 07:24:21 PM »

When you say turn the hive 90 degrees does that mean that  you're putting the entrance on the long side of the hive?
If so then how do you create an entrance? Do you have to make your own bottom board?

Stacie
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« Reply #13 on: June 20, 2004, 07:34:07 PM »

Quote from: Blackbird
When you say turn the hive 90 degrees does that mean that  you're putting the entrance on the long side of the hive


Yes,  the frames will run parallel to the entrance.

Quote from: Blackbird

If so then how do you create an entrance? Do you have to make your own bottom board?


Yes, or buy a DE modification Kit

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« Reply #14 on: June 21, 2004, 04:42:14 PM »

Stacie,

Here are some pictures of SBB built from the plans at BeeSource, that I modified for 90 degree rotation.  I had built a bunch before I got hooked on the 90 rotation,  so I simply cut the landing board off and sealed the entrance with a block.  I then cut a new entrance in the side and attached a luan alighting board.


click image for larger view

As you can see, I like to paint the alighting boards different colors to help the bees find their hive easier,  and I also take advantage of plastic realty signs for the slide in tray.
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Beth Kirkley
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« Reply #15 on: June 21, 2004, 07:13:04 PM »

Where do you get the realty signs?

(I imagine you sneaking around town stealing signs in the dark. LOL Smiley )

Beth

By the way...... nice looking SBB.
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« Reply #16 on: June 21, 2004, 08:04:00 PM »

Quote from: Beth Kirkley
Where do you get the realty signs?


There around, just have to look for them.  It seems like when a realty doesn't sell a piece of property, and the owner decides to use a different realty,  the first realty never shows up for their sign (maybe a pride thing).  It also seems like these days after selling a house in todays market, the realtors can't be bothered to come claim their signs.

Election signs work just as well, and there is a plethora available after election day Cheesy
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Beth Kirkley
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« Reply #17 on: June 21, 2004, 10:41:32 PM »

Now that's recycling in it's best form! LOL

Beth Smiley
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« Reply #18 on: July 01, 2004, 10:18:54 PM »

Beth,

Here is a link to the 2 super bottom hive you were talking about in your first post. Might be a fun experiment.


http://www.beesource.com/eob/condo/index.htm
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Beth Kirkley
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« Reply #19 on: July 02, 2004, 05:07:31 PM »

Yep, that's where I got the idea. I'm nearly finished with the new hive. Mostly all I need to do is paint it, and attach the roofing to the lids. The hive I'm building is two deep supers long, the frames run parallel to the entrance, and then any supers I add will go on the back - instead of in the middle like they did it. It's coming out really nice.

But thanks for putting the link in here. Then others will see where the idea came from.

Beth
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