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Author Topic: Controversial remarks??  (Read 5344 times)
buzzbee
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« Reply #40 on: July 13, 2010, 05:46:49 PM »

You want to see the tax system change? Force people to keep the gross income then send the tax  money in the day before election day!!
If most people had to physically remit the money instead of having it deducted before we received our pay,I am  sure the government would be doing with a lot less.And lets be sure we have to write a seperate check to each taxing body,from the local to the county,state and feds.
Sort out and seperate the taxes at the gas pump,utility bills and any where else taxes are hidden and you would most likely see a true revolution.
http://www.gaspricewatch.com/usgastaxes.asp
Be sure to add the 18.4 cents per for federal tax.
In PA this amounts to about 20 percent of the cost of a gallon of gas being tax.Then don't forget vehicle registrations,drivers license fees and such are nothing less than a tax.
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Jerrymac
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« Reply #41 on: July 13, 2010, 06:06:24 PM »

One little side note.

Our local news station sent out a reporter to talk to some of the panhandlers around here. He got a few pointers on how to do the "begging" and went about collecting money from people passing by in vehicles. Some would even park their cars off the street and run over there to give him some money.

People are so generous around here.

He did it for a few hours and then gave the money he collected to some charity. But he figured the hours he "worked" the money he made, multiplied it by eight hours a day five days a week fifty weeks a year..... he would make over $200,000 tax free income.

Lesson is, quit your job and start panhandling and become rich  cool
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« Reply #42 on: July 13, 2010, 06:38:47 PM »

they are sort of  organized here.  they get together, agree on corner assignments according to seniority, and are sometimes  dropped off on the assigned corner.

http://wweek.com/story.php?story=6021

i ran into one outside Powell's books the other day and all she wanted was a cigarette.  if she'd asked for food, i'd have gone back in a gotten her some.  the cigarettes i didn't share.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #43 on: July 13, 2010, 06:48:54 PM »

It is against the law for one to panhandle in Atlanta, but that don't stop them.  The last time I was there for a show at the Fox, a guy wanted just some change.  I ask why.   He gave me his story of how he could not work because of taxes and his disability.   I told he where the day labors hang out across the street in front of city hall east to work for cash.  But he did not like that idea.  He talked to us for about 10 minutes and did not believe me when I said I couldn't, it was against the law.
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Jerrymac
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« Reply #44 on: July 13, 2010, 07:12:08 PM »

It is legal here as long as you don't go out into the traffic. Just do it from the curb.
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luvin honey
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« Reply #45 on: July 14, 2010, 12:05:22 AM »

If everyone across the board paid the same percentage in taxes, that's about as 'fair' as it is ever going to get.  No one paying practically nothing, no one paying more than others.  no one hiding and lying how much money they have so they won't have to pay more on it.
Can't agree with this one. If you make $10,000 per year and pay 20% income, you are going to really miss that $2000. If I make $100,000 per year, I can probably get by just fine on my remaining $80,000.

Quote
I do not think it is right at all to make someone pay more who happens to make more money than someone else.  If I go bust my butt with my own business and work a second job while my wife works an extra job as well, we would make more money than folks who only work one job and we will have earned every penny of it.  Someone else who doesn't or can't put that much effort in and make the same amount of money is not entitled to some of mine just because  I have more.
This is interesting. This is exactly where my husband and I are at. We see people who make far more and work far less, and they still have money troubles. Still, I could not sit by and watch my fellow citizens starve or go homeless. As already mentioned, I would like to see serious efforts in helping people AND then getting them back into being productive members of society. If I make more $, then I'm in a better spot to do that. If I don't want to pay taxes, I can work so little that I fall below the taxable income level.
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bigbearomaha
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« Reply #46 on: July 14, 2010, 07:47:08 AM »

Your right, that's where we disagree.

It doesn't matter if you "like" having taxes taken out.  it doesn't matter how much the guy next to me gets taken out.  it's none of my business how much the next guy makes as long as he's making it honestly,.  we are both paying the same percentage.  20% of my income is so much money, 20% of his income will be different.

it's all 20%.

I try to mind my own business and not bee nosy about how much other people make.  Like I said, if  I want more money, I'll go make it. Not go begging for some of someone elses.

and if you want to help others, by all means, please use your own resources to do so.  You are free to use your money and resources as you see fit.

Keep your mitts out of my wallet.   I don't what dream you have for others, that's your dream, not necessarily mine. There are plenty of charities out there, you can take your dreams and guilty conscience to one of those or even start your own to pursue your dreams.  I'll pursue my ideas and dreams on my own as well.  As it should be.

Big Bear

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Jerrymac
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« Reply #47 on: July 14, 2010, 09:52:44 AM »

Wouldn't it be great to only be paying 20%?
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« Reply #48 on: July 14, 2010, 10:08:34 AM »

Quote
Can't agree with this one. If you make $10,000 per year and pay 20% income, you are going to really miss that $2000. If I make $100,000 per year, I can probably get by just fine on my remaining $80,000

so what?  the person who makes 100,000 a year is putting that money to use somewhere.  liberals are always talking about what is fair.  well, this is.  we all pay the same percentage of income.  the rich still pay way more than the poor, but everyone contributes to the wellbeing of society.  no one gets a free ride.  why in the heck should i "contribute" to society through  my taxes when you don't think you need to?


Quote
Still, I could not sit by and watch my fellow citizens starve or go homeless.


and i don't think any of us could.  we have the choice to help as we are able.  most of us do, in one way or another.  however, the more the government takes, the less i am able to give to those who i find really need help.  instead, the govt takes the money and wastes it.

my husband makes pretty good money.  i don't have to work.  i like to do what i do.  it earns me a bit of money and keeps my mind from mushing smiley.  i need to control my income so that we are not kicked up into the next tax bracket.  if we are, we would pay more in extra taxes than i could earn unless i go back to work full time. progressive taxation, like all socialist ideas,  is a disincentive to work.

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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #49 on: July 14, 2010, 01:40:31 PM »

If everyone across the board paid the same percentage in taxes, that's about as 'fair' as it is ever going to get.  No one paying practically nothing, no one paying more than others.  no one hiding and lying how much money they have so they won't have to pay more on it.
Can't agree with this one. If you make $10,000 per year and pay 20% income, you are going to really miss that $2000. If I make $100,000 per year, I can probably get by just fine on my remaining $80,000.


That is funny, because $10,000 of the person earning $20,000 comes from the person making $100,000!  So when the $100,000 person has his/her taxes increased by $2000, it is going to come at least in part from the person making $20,000 by scrimping and saving where possible!

As much as the liberals hate trickle-down economics, they can't get away from it. Increasing taxes on the rich will only accelerate it, just the wrong way.
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« Reply #50 on: July 14, 2010, 02:27:04 PM »

Well according to this the rich are already taxed more  Wink

http://www.smartmoney.com/personal-finance/taxes/whats-your-average-tax-rate-9548/

SO YOU'RE ANGRY that big bonus knocked you into the 33% tax bracket? Well, if it's any consolation, you don't have to pay the 33% tax rate on all your income. That's because you're only taxed at the 33% rate on income beyond a certain threshold — $171,850 for a single filer in 2010. Those who are married, filing jointly don't reach the 33% mark until $209,250. Income up to that point is taxed at the lower rates of 10%, 15%, 25% and 28%. So, your average tax rate is actually much lower than the highest rate you pay. Here's how it works.

Say, you're single and have taxable income of $185,000 in 2010. And let's say your gross income was $210,000. Well, your income up to $8,375 is taxed at 10%. From $8,376 to $34,000 is taxed at 15%. From $34,001 up to $82,400, it's taxed at 25%. From $82,401 to $171,850, the rate is 28%. And you'll pay 33% on the remaining $13,150. (The top rate, 35%, kicks in at $373,651 for singles.) In this case, your average tax rate (the proportion of gross income you'll pay in taxes) is about 22%.



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buzzbee
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« Reply #51 on: July 14, 2010, 05:46:56 PM »

I wonder how many jobs are created when the rich spend there money?i know a lot of people with money worked 80 or 90 hours a week to get where they are,but I guess that makes them winners of lifes lottery.As opposed to the guy that works 40 hours a week, takes off every sick day available and never misses breaks and is sure to use all his vacation time.
 And why should taxing bodies be able to make it hard for the little guy to eventually get rich?A lot of rich people started out poor and earned their way up the ladder.
A lot of the whiners out there complaining the rich are not paying there share were born with the silver spoon and never saw poverty other than in the newspaper.
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« Reply #52 on: July 14, 2010, 10:09:54 PM »

I read an article in the Wall Street Journal 12-15 years ago about "Who are the millionaires in our country." Turns out that 80% are the guy next door, who started a small business with a commonly used product or service and built that business through hard work and determination. Very few are from inherited money. Even fewer are those who came up with some revolutionary idea or whiz bang electronic device. Did I mention hard work and determination? Now, if I build my construction business to the point where I'm well off, why should I have to support a bunch of lazy bums who won't get off their duff to go to work. McDonalds is a starting job; you can go up from there! WalMart is a starting job; you can go up from there! Many liberals complain that Walmart and other large corporations don't pay enough and don't have good benefits. Tough beans! Go to your local Walmart and try to get an employee to quit his job. The problem with our economy right now is that, since LBJ and his "Great Society" programs, millions have learned to live on the government dole, in government provided housing, with a government provided big screen. It's a lot easier than working for a living so why would you want to work? Increasing government welfare doesn't get people back to work, the will to work and move up does. When you punish the folks, business, who create jobs why would they care about creating more jobs? As far as Europe goes, my mother immigrated here from Germany in 1938, and we still have many relatives in Germany. Don't try to tell me, or them, that socialism is the way to go. It is a good way to starve to death on $ 50,000 US per year. High taxes, high prices, high unemployment and millions crying for more government. Let them have it! It doesn't work.
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« Reply #53 on: July 14, 2010, 10:16:56 PM »

and...rich doesn't mean what you think it means.  for instance, when the death tax comes back if i were to die, my kids would have to sell off our property to pay it.  we don't have a million in the bank, but we have more than that in assets.  almost all of it land/homes.  land/homes that i have and will continue to pay taxes on.  same with a friend of mine.  she owns a well drilling business.  business is slow right now.  if she dies the kids will have to sell the family land to pay the taxes on the business that they won't be able to sell.  the one she pays massive taxes and fees on to keep going.

the death tax is one of the most unfair taxes on the books.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #54 on: July 14, 2010, 11:38:23 PM »


the death tax is one of the most unfair taxes on the books.

And that is what happened to many a family farm.The land had to be sold to pay the inheritance taxes.
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luvin honey
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« Reply #55 on: July 15, 2010, 09:11:04 AM »

I never commented on what is "fair" or not. Simply observed that 20% means the difference between eating or not for some people, not for others.

I don't care how wealthy other people are. Wealth is not my goal in life. Neither is poverty. I want to pay my bills, have a little left over for beekeeping and save for a rainy day/retirement. I'm just observing that some people work really, really hard to be financially secure, while others work really, really hard and still have money difficulties. I think a lot of people would benefit from intensive training on how to be financially responsible.

Yes, taxes are interesting. The estate tax will probably kill our farm family, too.

I don't really know the ins and outs of the welfare system. My friends, family and I have been fortunate enough not to need it. I hear stories that lead me to believe it's probably not always efficient (tongue firmly in cheek), but rather than completely destroy the system, why not work with it and get it more in line with your values?
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AllenF
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« Reply #56 on: July 15, 2010, 01:26:47 PM »

The death tax is expired now, or until they vote it back it. 

And for taxes for me, I lose out of my paycheck 28% to the fed, 12% to the SS tax, 6% to medicare, 6% to the state of Georgia, and I still have to pay FUTA, state unemployment, and all my insurances.
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« Reply #57 on: July 15, 2010, 01:54:07 PM »

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123846422014872229.html

not gone.  if they do nothing, it will go back to 55% next  year.

Quote
but rather than completely destroy the system, why not work with it and get it more in line with your values?


clinton did some welfare reform.  one of his better ideas even if it didn't do much to reform the system.  the feds should not be involved in welfare anyway.  

i have no problem helping people out in an emergency.  i think it's better done by charity organizations, but if states want to have some kind of emergency relief that's ok to if that's what the people of the state want to do.  key word: emergency

a little snapshot of welfare in my neighborhood:  i have renters in the house we bought a couple of years ago.  nice people and they keep the place up.  because they agreed to do some work, we keep their rent very low.  in addition to low rent, they get food stamps, WICK, heating help, state medical, the kids are getting free meals at school, and the youngest is now in a free pre-school program.  that's what i know about.
the other day the oldest came down because the power went out.  they had popped a breaker and i fixed it.  when i looked at what was on the circuit, i found two gaming machines, three TV's, two stereos + the usual lights, etc.  this was IN THE KIDS ROOMS, and doesn't even count what's in the rest of the house.....which includes a giant fish tank and big screen TV.  
wouldn't be any of my business except i know that i'm paying for that stuff...and the rent is late....but it comes eventually with apologies and lots of good reason....nice people and nice kids, but obviously a bit of a problem distinguishing between wants and needs.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #58 on: July 15, 2010, 02:38:51 PM »

http://www.estateplanninglinks.com/epl_course/taxes.htm

The table shows no tax for 2010.  Then 55% for 2011.
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« Reply #59 on: July 15, 2010, 02:51:38 PM »

yes.  2011.  that would be next year  grin
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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