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Author Topic: Dead Queen - Supercede or Re-Queen?  (Read 1833 times)
CircleBee
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« on: June 30, 2010, 10:53:03 PM »

I am a newbe this year and have a situation with my hive. I apologize if these topics have been brought up in other posts, I am just obsessing a little now & need some reassurance. Basically, I discovered my queen 3 days ago dead outside my hive after noticing about 20-30 bees in a ball on the ground covering her. I immediately inspected my hive and discovered two capped supercedure cells and two of the same that were opened and no eggs present anywhere. At this point I am planning on letting nature take its course and have them make their own queen. Is this the right thing to do? And at what point should I switch and go with the store bought re-queen option if I find no eggs in my hive? I am afraid of my population tanking. I started this hive April 7th, it is now June 30th, so far the hive has been doing excellent, population is booming, lots of activity. I did notice very early on that there were supercedure cells in the hive so I had a clue that maybe they weren’t liking my queen although she sure has populated the hive well up to this point…

My other question is, what do I do, if anything at this point about a honey bound hive - if I indeed have one? I am thinking I might as my hive currently has no new eggs (I verified this), very few uncapped larva, and < 8% (out of total drawn comb) capped brood present, ~ 70% drawn comb with most of this with nectar/capped honey, and a current strong nectar flow going on at my location. Once my hive is queen-right will they make room for brood, or do I need to give them some? I have a 10 frame, 2 brood box hive currently.
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BGhoney
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« Reply #1 on: July 03, 2010, 11:24:52 AM »

I would leave your hive that is superceding alone, they are very close to making the queen of there dreams and should be happy going into winter. Its an added bonus that you get a break in the mite cycle now.

When you open the other hive, if it is honey bound you can move a frame of 2 of pollen or honey to the out side of your hive, or remove and store for later feeding.  If that honey has had treatment in it, it would be better to remove it than take a chance of them moving it up into the supers to make room for brood.

Hows the Tee shirts coming, neighbor
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CircleBee
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« Reply #2 on: July 03, 2010, 01:28:43 PM »

Hey BGHoney!! Or should I say Neighbor!! Thanks for the reply, I appreciate it!! Yeah, that was my plan. I figured that they know what they are doing and why should I introduce another queen that they are just going to reject again. I am thinking that giving them three weeks should be enough time to find out if the supercede queen is present and laying...am I right?

Actually, the "Hives" that I now realize I made it sound like, are one and the same. So I just am not sure the timing of when to make room as I am not sure if I should right now. They still have ~20-30% undrawn comb in the hive now so maybe that is enough space for them to move things around enough for brood space. Or should I wait until I see eggs? This is all just one big adventure I guess, live and learn.

So where are you? I am off 249th Street here in BG. Do you know when the nectar flow around here ends? And then is there another one in the fall or not? This is my first year so I really don't know. I figured it would be when things started drying up, like my lawn always does!!

Thanks again and take care! 
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Robo
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« Reply #3 on: July 03, 2010, 05:14:28 PM »

There are many factors that will determine how good of queen you will get.  Why weren't the bees happy with the old queen?  Was she failing in some way?  Will a queen raised from an egg of a failing queen be affected?  How are the resources available for raising a queen?  Pollen and nectar flows on?   There is no right answer, you must decide.   But I will add,  even poor queens can look superb and have beautiful laying patterns in the summer.  It is not until Fall when things start getting tougher that you see poor queens start to fail.

http://robo.bushkillfarms.com/can-you-afford-emergency-queens/
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"Opportunity is missed by most people because it comes dressed in overalls and looks like work." - Thomas Edison


BGhoney
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« Reply #4 on: July 04, 2010, 10:18:32 AM »

We must be very close, I'm at 249th st and 152nd, just west of the BG lake.

Also make sure you rotate your undrawn frames or empty ones toward the center of the hive or they many never draw them out.  Make an attempt not to break up your brood pattern much.  Its getting warmer now so you will probably be ok.

I have a hive on a feed scale so I can monitor the flow, I hope theres still lots of berries in bloom later this week when it gets into the 90's.  So far if the weathers rainy the hive goes down 1  lb, if its ok, it goes up 1 to 1.5 and if its nice it will gain 5 lbs.  We havent gone above about 84 here yet, till this thursday..
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kathyp
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« Reply #5 on: July 04, 2010, 10:21:25 AM »

you both are up the road from me   grin
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
kathyp
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« Reply #6 on: July 04, 2010, 10:26:36 AM »

i would only caution that you keep a close eye on things.  if you do not see signs of a queen in a reasonable time period, consider buying one as we are getting into mid summer and you don't want your numbers to go down.  also, if you have other hives or access to another hive, slip another frame of eggs into this one.  if the cells that are in yours are not good, or the bees would like resources for a better queen, this will help.  if nothing else, the frame will help keep numbers up.

pull the frames that are packed with honey and interfering with the brood nest.  freeze them for later.  blackberries, among other things, are on now.  flow it heavy and you'll have to watch it.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2010, 12:28:33 AM by kathyp » Logged

.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
CircleBee
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« Reply #7 on: July 05, 2010, 12:09:12 AM »

BG - I am on the other side of BG, about a 1/2 mile from Daybreak park off 92nd avenue. Thanks for the info. on flows here. Having a scale for your hive sounds like a cool idea. Man, the last time I inspected my hive I was amazed at the weight difference just in less than a weeks time, it gained weight big time. WOW! This weather has been really bad for just starting a hive from a package, I sure have good timing.

Kathyp - Yeah, we are close, I have been through boring, Or. Thanks for the info. I was wondering about how to store frames full of honey, I will do that. Do you think that 3 weeks is enough time for a new queen to hatch, mate, and start laying. I hate to wait too long. Also, where do you get your Queens around here, if you have? Ruhl bee supply is the only place I know of and when I called they said they "might be" taking orders now, which doesn't leave me feeling real secure.
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kathyp
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« Reply #8 on: July 05, 2010, 12:34:44 AM »

ruhl bee supply has been pretty reliable in the past.  they usually take orders for queens through September, but i suppose it depends on their suppliers.

 don't jump the gun ordering a queen.  if you do, and have one in the hive, even a virgin, you will have wasted your money.  count 14 days from the day you found the dead queen for your queen cells to have hatched, and if you have it, put a frame of eggs in the hive.  if they don't attempt more queen cells, you probably have a queen in there.  then give the virgin a week to get mated and start laying. check for eggs. 

be aware that a hive without a queen will store lots of honey.  make sure that your new queen has a place to lay when she is mated. 
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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