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Author Topic: what do you "pay" for a beeyard  (Read 11093 times)
David McLeod
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« Reply #40 on: December 26, 2010, 08:17:42 PM »

rdy-b, I followed the Merrifield case pretty closely. You think thats bad check out Florida's regs. They have suffered a complete takeover by the PCOs and bats chiroptera are now are legally rodents under Florida law. FYI, bats are carnivores and not rodents. Florida will be overturned as soon as someone steps up to the plate and takes it to court.
Sad thing is that this may have to play out on a state by state basis as here in GA we have some in the Dept of Ag that take their cues from the PCOs and like what they see in FL.
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David McLeod
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« Reply #41 on: December 26, 2010, 08:18:56 PM »

ronwhite, don't go crying now you stepped in it too.
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BjornBee
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« Reply #42 on: December 26, 2010, 08:19:51 PM »

10. Bjorn, I am extremely sorry to have to disappoint you but you and your opinions are way below the horizon of my radar, quite frankly your not even big enough to be bait for the bigger fish I have to fry. Here in the south the term is piss ant.

This piss-ant, stands by his opinion.  grin

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rdy-b
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« Reply #43 on: December 26, 2010, 08:55:01 PM »

rdy-b, I followed the Merrifield case pretty closely. You think thats bad check out Florida's regs. They have suffered a complete takeover by the PCOs and bats chorister are now are legally rodents under Florida law. FYI, bats are carnivores and not rodents. Florida will be overturned as soon as someone steps up to the plate and takes it to court.
Sad thing is that this may have to play out on a state by state basis as here in GA we have some in the Dept of Ag that take their cues from the PCOs and like what they see in FL.

 kinda makes me proud to be in california -Heres the salute-  cheesy Wink
http://www.ca-wco.org/Remains.htm
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bee-nuts
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« Reply #44 on: December 27, 2010, 02:01:27 AM »



Are you saying you know that this happening? That homeowners are paying $150 dollars for a swarm removal a mile from a commercial operation with a hundred hives.

I know I get at least 50% of my swarms from the very farmer with my bees or their neighbors. I have never charged.

I can honestly say I never heard of this ever happening.

For swarms not next door to my operations, I always ask the homeowners "Do you know where the nearest beekeeper is around here?". They almost NEVER know of any beekeepers in the area.

So while it's nice to bring this all up, I'm not convinced that any suggestions of beekeepers charging for swarms across the street (or a mile away) from their location, is actually true.

Again, I'm not sure what beekeepers you have around you, but please feel free to give a few examples. I think suggesting that beekeepers are charging $150 dollars to collect swarms from their own hives a bit denigrating, and perhaps unfounded.


[/quote]

No I am not saying I know of people charging money for swarm removals.  I was just giving an example of what I think would be the wrong thing to do and I thought that was obvious.  I was under the impression by a previous poster that we should not be doing anything for free.  I hope most beeks are collecting swarms from neighbored properties as fast and free as they can.

I do know of a commercial beek near me who gets swarm calls all summer and does not collect them cause they told me so.  I dont think they give beeks numbers to call either cause if they did then they might not need to buy bees from them.  If they called me I would go get every one I could for free, paying for my own gas and whatever else.  I certainly would not need to buy any more bees though and Im sure thats why I dont end up with the calls.

When we start charging for swarm removals then people will see bees kept on their place as a liability.  I think even cutouts should be done without charging for labor.  If not then they might as well just poison them.  If people are willing to pay for materials and save the bees, then we have won the P.R. battle and thats a good thing.

I agree with you about the insurance.  But to be careful the home owner and beekeeper should sign a liability waiver document waving all rights to sue over damages, stings, falling off a latter and breaking a leg or whatever.  We dont need insurance, we need good old decency and respect.
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« Reply #45 on: December 27, 2010, 02:18:15 AM »

All I can say is I hope any government local, state or fed does not get their fingers in the pie and start regulating everything when it comes to beekeeping.  Can you imagine if you needed to get a permit by providing prof of insurance before you could removed a swarm?
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ronwhite3030
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« Reply #46 on: December 27, 2010, 02:38:09 AM »

All I am saying is this topic is no longer "what do you Pay for a beeyard." Yes I threw in a snide comment towards both of you, bjorn being abrasive always and you being a "wildlife specialist." sorry about the humor, thought I would lighten the mood...
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BjornBee
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« Reply #47 on: December 27, 2010, 07:31:45 AM »

All I can say is I hope any government local, state or fed does not get their fingers in the pie and start regulating everything when it comes to beekeeping.  Can you imagine if you needed to get a permit by providing prof of insurance before you could removed a swarm?

I agree with this and your last post.

I am perhaps a bit sensitive when people start saying the public needs protection from beekeepers, or that we should be licensed or regulated in some form or another. I think the government (Federal, state and local) in many ways has stepped over it's boundary, while claiming to "protect" us. I think most can agree with way too much interference in individuals lives, yet it seems each little group that benefits in some way, is always talking about the next group.

And if you stand back and take notice, some laws and regulations are passed, after first starting as one group lobbying for, making false "this will protect the public", and is centered on protection of their own individual business. It's never is really about the supposed "harm" that was hyped up or the "safety" of the public. It's ALWAYS about the money!

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Dave360
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« Reply #48 on: December 29, 2010, 08:38:11 PM »

well i hope to get some out yards this year for just some honey have had several ask me to put bees on their place but then i live in a very rural area i just dont have enough bees yet to do this

 as for charging for swarms around here most will do this for free / cut outs are a different story i have only done one but it took many hours and power tools hand tools and some construction knowledge and robo's great bee vac that took half a day to make

Dave
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David McLeod
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« Reply #49 on: January 11, 2011, 07:29:26 PM »

All I can say is I hope any government local, state or fed does not get their fingers in the pie and start regulating everything when it comes to beekeeping.  Can you imagine if you needed to get a permit by providing prof of insurance before you could removed a swarm?

I agree with this and your last post.

I am perhaps a bit sensitive when people start saying the public needs protection from beekeepers, or that we should be licensed or regulated in some form or another. I think the government (Federal, state and local) in many ways has stepped over it's boundary, while claiming to "protect" us. I think most can agree with way too much interference in individuals lives, yet it seems each little group that benefits in some way, is always talking about the next group.

And if you stand back and take notice, some laws and regulations are passed, after first starting as one group lobbying for, making false "this will protect the public", and is centered on protection of their own individual business. It's never is really about the supposed "harm" that was hyped up or the "safety" of the public. It's ALWAYS about the money!



I should let this thread die but the above does not accurately represent my arguement. At no time have I ever espoused that anyone needed to be "protected" from beeks. On the contrary, I actively seek to recruit beeks to my industry for the protection of the BEES. If not the PCOs and untrained NWCOs will do with the bees as they will and the bottom line dictates, read that to mean "treat" them.
Now as to the actual regulation that I desire. What I seek is a basic level of competency within MY INDUSTRY and a means to either bar from service or remove from service those that fail to abide by basic ethical and legal considerations. It is those bad apples that I seek to "protect the public" from.
If we had a basic and simple level of competency to meet then you would not hear a peep from me but in my state as in most the industry is completely and totally UNREGULATED. Back in the day I would have said this is a good thing and to let CAVEAT EMPTOR rule the day. As a matter of fact I am still of that philosophical bent yet after repeatedly seeing the horrors, deceits and lies being foisted off on the general public on a daily basis something has to give. At this time all I can hope to do is to cry in the wilderness until the time comes that some of us can find a receptive audience. Until then I shall endeavour to set the bar myself in my personal and professional actions and hope my colleagues will do the same.
Nuff said

PS Bjorn, after much consideration I feel that I have wronged you in some of my more scathing comments. For that I sincerely apologize. I still disagree with many of your points and do not always care for the way they are made but I shall try to not let it sink to the personal next time.
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Georgia Wildlife Services,Inc
Georgia's Full Service Wildlife Solution
Atlanta (678) 572-8269 Macon (478) 227-4497
www.atlantawildliferemoval.net
georgiawildlifeservices@gmail.com
bee-nuts
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« Reply #50 on: January 12, 2011, 02:48:28 AM »

David McLeod 

I can understand you reasoning on the cutouts but I am not a fan of the government being everyones mommy and daddy.  People should be liable for there decisions.  If they trust someone with no knowledge of who they are without a contract of any kind, then dont go crying to mommy about it when you get burned.

All people involved in skilled trades like carpentry, roofing, carpet, and on and on should have one type of regulation provided by their government that would be of much larger benefit to you and the rest of us. That is to stop illegal immigrants from taking a large chunk of the honest work for honest wages away from you, me and others.  The line that nobody else wants to do the work is a line of crap.  Nobody wants to do it for ten dollars an hour.  If that was done, you would be able to get and honest days pays and plenty of it.
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Oblio13
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« Reply #51 on: August 24, 2011, 07:56:23 AM »

... the guy who without a business license, trapping license (if applicable), wildlife control permit (if applicable), pesticide applicators license (if applicable), federal tax id, state articles of incorporation, general liability insurance, commercial vehicle insurance, worker's compensation insurance, membership in state and national trade associations, continuing education and all the other mandatory items to conduct business ...

When I read this paragraph, what leapt out at me was not any problem with beekeepers, but rather a problem with our culture and government. How did the tentacles of bureaucracy insinuate themselves into so many facets of our lives? Why do we need permission for almost anything we do? Why do we tolerate that in "the land of the free and the home of the brave"?

Back on topic: I put a couple nice-looking copper-top hives in friend's suburban backyard to take advantage of some huge black locust trees. I give them an occasional slab of comb honey. They enjoy suiting up with me and taking peeks inside now and then. Once I put on 'full body armor' and took care of a yellow jacket nest in their attic for them. That seems to be more than enough "rent" for them. Several other people who have become aware of our informal arrangement have said that they'd like to have hives on their property. If there was ever a hint of discontent, let alone a demand for money or half the crop, I'd move my hives.
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BlevinsBees
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« Reply #52 on: August 24, 2011, 12:45:03 PM »

Be very careful. Some non-beekeeping farmers and nursery owners don't realize the cost that goes into a hive. All they see is free honey to try to sell themselves at their nursery or farm. The "free pollination" approach is best!
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kathyp
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« Reply #53 on: August 24, 2011, 01:42:43 PM »

Quote
My point is that the guy who without a business license, trapping license (if applicable), wildlife control permit (if applicable), pesticide applicators license (if applicable), federal tax id, state articles of incorporation, general liability insurance, commercial vehicle insurance, worker's compensation insurance, membership in state and national trade associations, continuing education and all the other mandatory items to conduct business as a for profit corporation or sole proprietor is undercutting me and my brethren with unfair trade practices.

you know i love you, dear, but this is BS on the highest order.  i don't do a lot of cutouts (none this year) but those i do, i do for free with a donation to the gas tank accepted.  why?  because i do outbuildings, little old ladies, farms, etc.  9 out of 10 times they have called all over the place and either can't fine anyone willing to do a removal, or will charge so much they can't afford it.  i happen to enjoy doing them when i have time.  i like the people i meet.  i usually get fed and the donations are pretty generous.  i tear things up and pull out bees. they put things back together when i'm done.  works for both of us.  it's a hobby for me, not a job.

i understand that some people think doing this free is dumb, but there are only two of us in the area who will tackle these jobs.  he can take the money makers.  fine with me.  he has more than he can do in any one year.  pest control?  they refer to me.  they don't want to touch the honeybee removals.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

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