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Author Topic: what do you "pay" for a beeyard  (Read 10546 times)
Bee Happy
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« Reply #20 on: December 17, 2010, 09:54:46 PM »

I guess it's because I'm in the country, but I've had a couple people ask me to put them out on their place. I didn't say no but I did tell them I won't forget if I wind up with too many bees.
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bee-nuts
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« Reply #21 on: December 20, 2010, 02:58:34 AM »

New Old Guy

You walked into a real deal there.  Hope you do better this year. 
No matter how you look at it you got nothing to lose.
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Yuleluder
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« Reply #22 on: December 21, 2010, 07:44:08 PM »

Call your county agriculture department.  They should be able to help place some hives.
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kathyp
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« Reply #23 on: December 21, 2010, 08:52:08 PM »

Bee happy, same here. I get two or three calls a year from people who want hives.  So far I have only done a few with mixed results. No problems with the people,  though.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

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skatesailor
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« Reply #24 on: December 22, 2010, 06:54:21 PM »

First off you need to understand something. You have a commodity that is in demand and it should not be sold short. You DO NOT PAY to place your bees but rather get paid. Yes it is nice to give small landowners honey for being allowed to place some hives. However if you live in cropland you should either be paid or do it for free, your choice. This kind of thing sticks in the craw of those of us who farm for a living. When hobbyists raise livestock and then sell for low prices they undermine the farm economy. Back to the bees,  NEVER pay to put them someplace. I'm not too sure how polite I would be in refusing to pay to place hives, especially at $5000.
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David McLeod
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« Reply #25 on: December 24, 2010, 07:14:14 PM »

skatesailer, agreed 100%. I feel the same way about folks doing free bee removals. Before the lid blows off I'm not going argue the point and quite frankly the free swarm removals are fine by me because I can't get to all of them it's the cut outs where I carry insurance and am a carpenter/home builder and skilled in that specialty that gets my goat.
JMO, but all of us that have or keep bees have put in alot of time and effort to aquire the knowledge and skill to do so and their should be a reward for every part of our applied knowledge.
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« Reply #26 on: December 26, 2010, 01:36:39 AM »

I think we should be doing free swarm removals if they are close by and not out of the ordinary circumstances.  We need to keep the image of the friendly beekeeper and friendly honeybees and not the pest swarms cast off from the beekeepers that then have the guts to charge for their removal.

Of course I dont feel that the latter is the right mind set but I can easily see people feeling that way if they see a hundred colonies a mile from their place and then are told if they want a swarm removed it will cost them $150.00.  If you expect ordinary folk to offer their land freely for honey production I dont think you want to charge their neighbors to have swarms removed.

I think we are all lucky that honeybees have been given a warm welcome by the press lately.  I dont think the average folk gave a crap about beekeepers problems tens years ago and could have gave a crap less if you had a spot to keep them.  People still worry about getting stung no matter how nice you say they are.  I picked up one yard for nothing last summer from a farmer in a real nice location for free.  I had another one to put bees on too until he informed his wife and she had a cow over the possibility of her grandchildren being attract by them.

Im not trying to start a battle here, thats just the way I feel about it myself.
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David McLeod
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« Reply #27 on: December 26, 2010, 08:17:16 AM »

Bee nuts, that's exactly why I have no issue with swarm removal. Exellant opportunity to get a beek in front of the general public for good PR and education. Most swarm removals also do not stray to far into areas my business covers such as ladder work on roofs and/or structural repairs. It is the guys that do not carry insurance to protect the public from their actions nor hold specific state and local licenses to perform their services that I have issues with.  There is a line that can be crossed and that is the only issue I have.
Honeybees are but a small portion of my business and what I really would like to see is a way to get the PCOs and NWCOs out of the hose them and cash the check mentality. I want to reach out and work with my local beeks as I have but two options. Save every swarm and cut out and get inundated with boxes in the yard and swamped with a sideline hobby that could detract from my main business enterprise or work with beeks (and possibly add a small source of revenue to offset the additional costs) to move these swarms and cut outs back into the keeper community. I tend to see the glass half full option and hope this will be a viable business option.
Whatever happens, I'm not going to get into a pissing contest with beeks as I have far bigger fish to fry. Just ask me about the PCOs doing wildlife without a license or the live market coyote guys operating in my area.
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Georgia Wildlife Services,Inc
Georgia's Full Service Wildlife Solution
Atlanta (678) 572-8269 Macon (478) 227-4497
www.atlantawildliferemoval.net
georgiawildlifeservices@gmail.com
BjornBee
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« Reply #28 on: December 26, 2010, 09:54:42 AM »

Beekeepers have been doing cutouts, swarm removal and other services for the public for years. Make that HUNDREDS of years.

Can anyone show me one example of a beekeeper screwing the public, getting sued, or any other justification being suggested that the homeowners "need protected" from the beekeepers actions?

Figures it would be a few pest control people coming here suggesting that beekeepers need to carry insurance to provide a basic services and the need for the public to protect themselves from those nasty and unscrupulous beekeepers.

I'm sure the tow truck drivers feel the same way about me giving someone a jump for their dead battery. Or pulling them out of a ditch.  

It figures some are part of the government's intrusive agenda on free trade and markets, justifying it that one group needs protected from another. This perpetuation that everybody needs certified, licensed, and regulated for every possible thing is absurd. And I question those that promote it, justify, and are part of that system.

I hear of MANY more complaints and shady dealings from certified pest control people over charging and doing crappy work. Never heard that about a beekeeper.

So yes, we should demand reasonable protection from money grubbing sticky fingered pest control guys that charge old ladies $400 dollars to walk around for 15 minute spraying nasty chemicals everywhere.

Leave the beekeepers alone. they provide a service, whether free or otherwise, and from what I see, are not ripping anyone off.

Sounds to me as if a few people are trying to protect their own interest, disguised as mumbo jumbo wishy washy double talk. And I am actually surprised someone would come to a bee forum and crap on beekeepers by suggesting the public needs insurance from these folks because they need protection from beekeepers.

David, You come here and make false allegations against someone you don't like because among other things, Billy did not join your association. Now you crap on beekeepers. Who's next?  rolleyes
« Last Edit: December 26, 2010, 10:22:52 AM by BjornBee » Logged

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BjornBee
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« Reply #29 on: December 26, 2010, 10:39:54 AM »

I think we should be doing free swarm removals if they are close by and not out of the ordinary circumstances.  We need to keep the image of the friendly beekeeper and friendly honeybees and not the pest swarms cast off from the beekeepers that then have the guts to charge for their removal.

Of course I don't feel that the latter is the right mind set but I can easily see people feeling that way if they see a hundred colonies a mile from their place and then are told if they want a swarm removed it will cost them $150.00.  If you expect ordinary folk to offer their land freely for honey production I don't think you want to charge their neighbors to have swarms removed.


Are you saying you know that this happening? That homeowners are paying $150 dollars for a swarm removal a mile from a commercial operation with a hundred hives.

I know I get at least 50% of my swarms from the very farmer with my bees or their neighbors. I have never charged.

I can honestly say I never heard of this ever happening.

For swarms not next door to my operations, I always ask the homeowners "Do you know where the nearest beekeeper is around here?". They almost NEVER know of any beekeepers in the area.

So while it's nice to bring this all up, I'm not convinced that any suggestions of beekeepers charging for swarms across the street (or a mile away) from their location, is actually true.

Again, I'm not sure what beekeepers you have around you, but please feel free to give a few examples. I think suggesting that beekeepers are charging $150 dollars to collect swarms from their own hives a bit denigrating, and perhaps unfounded.

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David McLeod
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« Reply #30 on: December 26, 2010, 12:44:13 PM »

Bjorn, believe it or not it is true. Maybe not for retrieving your own swarms from commercial operations but right here in GA we have master beeks (that specialize in nothing but honey bees) that provide swarm removal and cut outs and charge just like the professionals that they are.
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Georgia Wildlife Services,Inc
Georgia's Full Service Wildlife Solution
Atlanta (678) 572-8269 Macon (478) 227-4497
www.atlantawildliferemoval.net
georgiawildlifeservices@gmail.com
BjornBee
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« Reply #31 on: December 26, 2010, 01:06:54 PM »

Bjorn, believe it or not it is true. Maybe not for retrieving your own swarms from commercial operations but right here in GA we have master beeks (that specialize in nothing but honey bees) that provide swarm removal and cut outs and charge just like the professionals that they are.

I'm not sure the point, counterpoint, or what your making true.

That beekeepers charge for services rendered? So what?

You seemingly feel that for beekeepers to collect a swarm for free...that is ok.

To charge for a swarm collection....not ok.

To climb a ladder...that infringes upon your territory and you think one must be licensed and the public must be  "protected" from beekeepers.

Nobody is denying that beekeepers collect swarms, do cutouts, climb ladders, and even get paid for services rendered. So what is your point?
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David McLeod
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« Reply #32 on: December 26, 2010, 01:48:23 PM »

My point is that the guy who without a business license, trapping license (if applicable), wildlife control permit (if applicable), pesticide applicators license (if applicable), federal tax id, state articles of incorporation, general liability insurance, commercial vehicle insurance, worker's compensation insurance, membership in state and national trade associations, continuing education and all the other mandatory items to conduct business as a for profit corporation or sole proprietor is undercutting me and my brethren with unfair trade practices.
Now that said beeks are the very least of my worries I have far more issues with the Pest Control Operators trapping wildlife without either trapping licenses and wildlife control permits (yet I can not walk on their side of the street at all unless I become one of them with PCO licensing), fur trappers thinking wildlife control is just a fun hobby that can be done in the city (an entirely different set of conditions than farmer Bob's back forty in the middle of nowhere), live market coyote guys invading the suburbs trapping for free, USFW Wildlife Services using their muscle and clout to shove aside the private sector, lack of manpower and enforcement within the DNR to effectively regulate my industry to insure that all play by the rules, the threatened take over of the industry by the national pest management associations and their paid off lackeys in the Dept of Ag, interference by the local animal control officers who for the most part are closet PETA members, the active and always dangerous HSUS and their comrades in arms that the ignorant keep electing to office.
My only contention that I would stress upon beeks is to please consider the possible consequences of one's actions. Their is a huge difference between being invited on the property of another to shake down a low hanging swarm at no charge and climbing on a roof and chopping into a wall to remove an established colony for a fee. The former is a fine endeavor and should be encouraged as long as the general public will allow it. The latter enters into an area better covered by a contractual business relationship. The grey area between the two being the fee for services. Just something for all to consider.
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Georgia Wildlife Services,Inc
Georgia's Full Service Wildlife Solution
Atlanta (678) 572-8269 Macon (478) 227-4497
www.atlantawildliferemoval.net
georgiawildlifeservices@gmail.com
BjornBee
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« Reply #33 on: December 26, 2010, 02:56:47 PM »

Then don't sugar coat it.

It's not about your heart felt concern of another person. In fact, you have shown no real second thought of coming on here and trashing others.

And it's not about some unfounded concerns of homeowners being ripped off by beekeepers.

It comes down to your protection of your business and the undercutting for services of you and  your...how did you say that..."your brethren"

And you think coming to a bee forum, throwing around all your "You need a license for this" and" "a certificate for that" while openly admitting you have a problem with those undercutting your prices, while suggesting the public needs "protection" from beekeepers, is honestly going to be taken well?

Typical scenario.....pest control people trying to scare the jeebees out of others by suggesting they need to consider liability, and all they could lose, by doing a cutout, or climbing a ladder.

I asked once already. Show me one example, of not a pesticide guy getting undercut, but an example of a beekeeper being sued or doing inferior work? You can't do it. Making your whole comment, nothing more than a self protection dialog designed to scare other people. You can side step it all you want with mentioning of animals, foxes, etc. But your on a bee forum, talking to beekeepers.

And if ever a day does come along, that a beekeeper does get sued, it will be once again by a pest control person, protecting their "turf". It's been done before. And if by chance it is a homeowner, it will probably be with some pest control guy standing in the background egging it on.

Beekeepers being turned in by pest control people has a long history too it. And at least for me, I don't appreciate a pest control guy coming here and making the suggestions that you have made. I think people can see through your comments.
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rdy-b
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« Reply #34 on: December 26, 2010, 04:14:06 PM »

Beekeepers have been doing cutouts, swarm removal and other services for the public for years. Make that HUNDREDS of years.

Can anyone show me one example of a beekeeper screwing the public, getting sued, or any other justification being suggested that the homeowners "need protected" from the beekeepers actions?

Figures it would be a few pest control people coming here suggesting that beekeepers need to carry insurance to provide a basic services and the need for the public to protect themselves from those nasty and unscrupulous beekeepers.

I'm sure the tow truck drivers feel the same way about me giving someone a jump for their dead battery. Or pulling them out of a ditch.  

It figures some are part of the government's intrusive agenda on free trade and markets, justifying it that one group needs protected from another. This perpetuation that everybody needs certified, licensed, and regulated for every possible thing is absurd. And I question those that promote it, justify, and are part of that system.

I hear of MANY more complaints and shady dealings from certified pest control people over charging and doing crappy work. Never heard that about a beekeeper.

So yes, we should demand reasonable protection from money grubbing sticky fingered pest control guys that charge old ladies $400 dollars to walk around for 15 minute spraying nasty chemicals everywhere.

Leave the beekeepers alone. they provide a service, whether free or otherwise, and from what I see, are not ripping anyone off.

Sounds to me as if a few people are trying to protect their own interest, disguised as mumbo jumbo wishy washy double talk. And I am actually surprised someone would come to a bee forum and crap on beekeepers by suggesting the public needs insurance from these folks because they need protection from beekeepers.

David, You come here and make false allegations against someone you don't like because among other things, Billy did not join your association. Now you crap on beekeepers. Who's next?  rolleyes
Jerry Jerry nice shooting -RDY-B
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ronwhite3030
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« Reply #35 on: December 26, 2010, 04:29:43 PM »

I finally agree with bjorn's abrasiveness.
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David McLeod
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« Reply #36 on: December 26, 2010, 05:26:44 PM »

Okay, so you want the gloves off approach then.

1. I am not nor do I intend to ever be a "pest control guy". I have in the past been one at least as far as stinging insects go (to include honey bees). I have sprayed my last honey bee and will never do it again! Please do not think this is some sort plea for forgiveness because it ain't. It's personal and I'll leave it at that. I, too, love the ladies and am ashamed of what I have done.

2. Bjorn, for whatever sadistic reason you have a bent to pick apart and assault any who may present themselves as a target for your twisted pleasure irregardless of their original intent.

3. At no time have I urged that bee keepers not offer their services to the general public. This is for the complete and total benefit of all involved. The bee keeper, the bees and most of all the public at large. I actually seek to recruit beeks to my industry in whatever capacity they may wish to contribute, the same as I would vetrinarians, biologists, researchers and any other profession or interest that may add to my industry's skills and knowledge.

4. Yes, indeed, it is about my concern for my fellow human beings that I desire this. The baseless and false slander you accuse me of makes me want to reach through cyberspace and slap the stink off of you. You have no idea what I see daily in the trenches. The fraud and deceit practiced by so many in business today is appalling at the least, and criminal in principal. At no time have I, nor have I ever been given reason to, intimated that beekeepers as a lot or in the individual are engaged in this behavior.

5. Yes, I must admit I do have a base desire to improve my profit/loss statement but then again I would expect the very same out of each and every beek on this site that has ever sold a jar of honey. Shoot me I'm guilty as charged.

6. Referencing statement number four, it is through the "raising of the bar" rather than restriction of entry that I intend to acheive the goal of statement number five. I have learned a long time past that bitching and moaning accomplishes nothing and to worry as to the conduct of others removes my focus from me and what I do best. You have heard, I would imagine, that a rising tide raises all ships?

7. I am here by choice on a beekeeper site because that is what I am, in addition to my other sins. Granted I am not a commercial, pollination, sideliner or any of the other definitions that we like to divide ourselves into. I am sorry if the almighty, Bjorn, feels that I do not have a place at this table but stay I will until shown the door. In the meantime it is my heartfelt desire that I may be able to contribute what little I may to the beekeeping community.

8. On this forum and others I have seen credible information submitted by you yet I also must discredit almost all of it in it's entirity due to the method in which it is delivered, consider that.

9. If any on this site or any other has any cause for concern with me personally or my open and willfully stated opinions I am available at anytime day or night, my informtion and contact numbers are openly displayed all across the worldwide web. Please do not hold back, call me and I will be glad to continue to express my opinions until you are either fully satisfied that I am either a stark raving lunatic or genuinely concerned with whatever it is that has irked my ire.

10. Bjorn, I am extremely sorry to have to disappoint you but you and your opinions are way below the horizon of my radar, quite frankly your not even big enough to be bait for the bigger fish I have to fry. Here in the south the term is piss ant.
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Georgia Wildlife Services,Inc
Georgia's Full Service Wildlife Solution
Atlanta (678) 572-8269 Macon (478) 227-4497
www.atlantawildliferemoval.net
georgiawildlifeservices@gmail.com
David McLeod
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« Reply #37 on: December 26, 2010, 06:34:48 PM »

On the insurance issue. Maybe you do not keep up with industry news but let me fill you in on some issues in the recent past.
Within the past twenty four months there have been two cases where small children have been killed by operators who in their minds had no wrongful intent.

One case in Utah a pest control technician applied phostoxin for the control of gophers in a yard. The fumes seeped into a home and killed two children.

In another case a homeowner attempting to curb a severe roach problem in her home used an excessive amount of OTC roach bombs and killed two of her own children.

No, these were not beekeepers but are just two examples of good intentions with fatal consequences. Nor would insurance truly ever hope to "restore" these families. I would strongly hope that beeks, plumbers, auto mechanics and other assorted and sundry past times would take a very careful look at all of the many variables that could cause unforeseen consequences and wisely decide to provide some level of insurance to restore any victims of those unforeseen incidents.
This does not mean that beeks or any other hobbiest should be mandated to do anything. Just use some common sense when your out and about.
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Georgia Wildlife Services,Inc
Georgia's Full Service Wildlife Solution
Atlanta (678) 572-8269 Macon (478) 227-4497
www.atlantawildliferemoval.net
georgiawildlifeservices@gmail.com
rdy-b
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« Reply #38 on: December 26, 2010, 07:41:23 PM »

great post David-there are concerns about territory(not to mention qualifications) whether keepers or pco or nwco
And it seams that there are many Hidden agendas when people are going after the big fish
and the subject gets very complicated -at-least in my state-Im sure you read this but it makes good background RDY-B

http://www.ca-wco.org/fight-1.htm
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ronwhite3030
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« Reply #39 on: December 26, 2010, 08:05:41 PM »

personally I think this has gone long enough, beemaster can you squash this subject? I come here to read and get help not to read people bicker like two school girls.
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