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Author Topic: How to transition from 10-frame deep boxes to 8-frame mediums?  (Read 1333 times)
TwoHoneys
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« on: June 02, 2010, 11:04:54 AM »

Of course, now I realize why it makes sense (for me) to use all medium-sized boxes...but only after investing in two different sized boxes and frames and foundations.

I currently have 3 hives...two 10-frame deeps per hive. I draw my honey from 10-frame shallow supers. But I want to begin making the move to all 8-frame medium boxes because I think it makes more sense when it comes to long-term hive management...easier on the beekeeper, healthier for the bees, and more flexibility with the equipment.

My question---what are the logistics for making this transition? I can't figure out how to methodically shift all that brood and all those frames from 10-frame deeps to 8-frame mediums.
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marksmith
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« Reply #1 on: June 02, 2010, 11:40:26 AM »

Just a new beek here.... but If I was going to do it quickly... I'd cut the frames down, trim the bottom of the existing comb to size and insert in the 8med boxes.  Then rotate foundationless comb into the box.  You will cull the cut stuff... and have fresh comb to start from.

Not so quickly... build a shim, cut down to a single deep, and super with fresh 8 medium. When the queen moves into the medium to lay, pull bottom super and flip it upside down.  They will quit using it. When it hatches out, pull it and discard.




Just my observations
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AllenF
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« Reply #2 on: June 02, 2010, 12:48:39 PM »

Leave the deep boxes as deeps, just cut the box down to make them into 8 frame boxes.   Then go with med boxes from now on until you can cycle the deeps out.   
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kathyp
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« Reply #3 on: June 02, 2010, 08:50:04 PM »

use caution going to 8 frames in your brood boxes.  you are very apt to end up with messy comb.
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Ollie
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« Reply #4 on: June 02, 2010, 09:39:22 PM »

How fast of a transition are you after?
-Take the frame out one by one and cut out the comb to fit in a medium frame, put the comb in the frame and hold it there with elastic bands.
Leave the two frames  on the outside of the deep
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OzBuzz
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« Reply #5 on: June 02, 2010, 10:00:18 PM »

It all depends on how quickly you want to make the move - as you mention a transition it doesnt sound like there is a super urgency to it! I also don't know how many hives you have so i will assume that you have small numbers:

I'm a newbie but this is what i would do:

Get one or two, maybe even three, 10 frame medium boxes. Working on one hive at a time:

1) Put the 3 X 10 frame mediums on top of the brood chamber and let the bees draw the foundation out
2) When the foundation is fully drawn put two of the drawn mediums on the base board, shake a few frames of bees in to the two mediums, ensure the queen is down there as well.
3) Put on a queen excluder, then put the10 frame deep above the queen excluder with the other 10 frame medium above the brood chamber
4) The queen should start laying in the bottom mediums and the brood from the deep will hatch and the bees should start back filling
5) When all the brood is hatched remove the deeep and set it aside to allow the bees to rob it of the nectar that they will probably have backfilled with. By this time you should start seeing a nice brood pattern developing in the bottom mediums and nectra being put in the top medium
6) At this point you can do one of two things:
   a) Remove the Queen excluder and give her free reign of the three medium boxes
   b) leave the queen excluder in place and allow the colony to grow ad put down honey stores

Now, in my opinion, here comes the fun part... you can either transiton to two full 8 frame medium boxes and make one split with the remaining six frames from the medium bodies (needing you to buy two queens) or you have the option to potentially make a few (dependent on brood concentration etc) five frame nucleus hives.

All that from only one hive! then you can either convert all of your ten frame gear to 8 frame (which i would do with the mediums you bought) and potentially keep the ten frame deep for swarms.

Just a newbies thoughts....

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TwoHoneys
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« Reply #6 on: June 03, 2010, 07:05:45 AM »

Thanks for your suggestions, all. I can't tell you how long it takes for me to envision how each idea would actually work, you know?

When several of you suggest "cut the deep boxes down" I assume you mean take the danged thing apart and then saw it down? Which involves construction?! You know, I don't mind doing a bit of work, but I'm not so good with angles and saws and measuring, and those boxes have all those joints to deal with. I'm sure I'd screw it up. The idea of it makes me want to run for the hills. Sorry. Maybe I'll get better with this.

-Take the frame out one by one and cut out the comb to fit in a medium frame, put the comb in the frame and hold it there with elastic bands.
Leave the two frames  on the outside of the deep

This suggestions sounds workable to me, Ollie...maybe because it doesn't involve sawing! But I can't quite figure out what you mean when you say "leave the two frames on the outside of the deep" because I'm trying to move from using deeps to using mediums, yes?
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FRAMEshift
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« Reply #7 on: June 03, 2010, 05:45:10 PM »

Of course, you can stack an 8 frame medium on top of a 10 frame deep.  Just cover the open part of the deep with a piece of wood.  Now you have one hive in which you can gradually remove deep frames when they are low on brood, pushing the bees up into the mediums above. And you could replace the deep frames with medium frames in the deep, although you might get some weird comb below the frame. 
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OzBuzz
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« Reply #8 on: June 03, 2010, 06:24:38 PM »

Thanks for your suggestions, all. I can't tell you how long it takes for me to envision how each idea would actually work, you know?

When several of you suggest "cut the deep boxes down" I assume you mean take the danged thing apart and then saw it down? Which involves construction?! You know, I don't mind doing a bit of work, but I'm not so good with angles and saws and measuring, and those boxes have all those joints to deal with. I'm sure I'd screw it up. The idea of it makes me want to run for the hills. Sorry. Maybe I'll get better with this.

You don't have to cut the deep boxes down - you could always use them for swarm traps
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AllenF
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« Reply #9 on: June 03, 2010, 06:40:12 PM »

Or you could go ahead and buy all 8 frame med boxes and go ahead and make splits into them and dump your bees over and then sell you deep box hives as nucs with what little bees you leave in there.   You would basically starting over.
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Ollie
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« Reply #10 on: June 03, 2010, 06:45:44 PM »


 But I can't quite figure out what you mean when you say "leave the two frames on the outside of the deep" because I'm trying to move from using deeps to using mediums, yes?

Well you're going from deeps to mediums, and also from a ten frame to a eight frame set up. you'll have 2 extra deep frames left over.
I like the suggestion of keeping the deep box for a swarm trap, then you'll have a place to put those extra frames.
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TwoHoneys
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« Reply #11 on: June 03, 2010, 08:20:51 PM »

Thanks, my new friends. A plan is slowly slowly evolving. One thing I really admire about my favorite beekeepers (and regular people, too) is the willingness to try new things like this.
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