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### Author Topic: 1:1 vs 2:1 syrup  (Read 2760 times)

#### rgy

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##### 1:1 vs 2:1 syrup
« on: June 03, 2010, 01:49:15 PM »
I make syrup at 2 1/2 quarts to 5lbs sugare.  I take it that is 2:1.  2 lbs to 1 qt.

when and why do you go 1:1 vs 2:1.  Beekeeping for dummy's hasn't covered that yet

#### riverrat

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##### Re: 1:1 vs 2:1 syrup
« Reply #1 on: June 03, 2010, 01:56:53 PM »
1:1 ration is equal amounts of sugar and water it is a lighter syrup used to simulate a flow thus fooling the hive into raising brood 2:1 is 2 parts sugar to 1 part water it is a thicker syrup which the bees take in for winter stores they dont have to work as hard to get the water content down before capping i consider a 5lb bag of sugar to a 2 1/2 quart pickle jar as a 1:1 mixture
never take the top off a hive on a day that you wouldn't want the roof taken off your house

#### Finski

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##### Re: 1:1 vs 2:1 syrup
« Reply #2 on: June 03, 2010, 02:21:16 PM »

For winter I feed with 64% syrup and in spring.

To swarm I give 20% syrup.
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Language barrier NOT included

#### iddee

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##### Re: 1:1 vs 2:1 syrup
« Reply #3 on: June 03, 2010, 02:27:46 PM »
>>>>I take it that is 2:1.  2 lbs to 1 qt. <<<<

A quart of sugar is not equal a pound of sugar.
Looking at it that way, would 2 oz. sugar to 1 gal. of water also be 2:1??

You have to use the same measurement. 2 lb. sugar to 2 lb. water, or 2 quart sugar to 2 quart water is 1:1.

In your case, 5 lb. sugar equal 5 pints sugar. 2 1/2 quart water equals 5 pints water. That is 1:1.
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*

#### FRAMEshift

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##### Re: 1:1 vs 2:1 syrup
« Reply #4 on: June 04, 2010, 02:35:37 PM »
It depends on how it has been done in the past by the people who have evaluated the various ratios of sugar to water.  I would think 1:1 would be one quart sugar to one quart water because volumes are easier for most people to measure and that's most likely what has been done in the past.  You could use weight, like one pound to one pound, but that will not give the same concentration as 1 quart to 1 quart because the density of water is not the same as the density of sugar.  The answer for this issue is for people to say what units of measure they are using and NOT just say 1:1.
"You never can tell with bees."  --  Winnie-the-Pooh

#### Finski

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##### Re: 1:1 vs 2:1 syrup
« Reply #5 on: June 04, 2010, 02:45:40 PM »
.
why I use 20% sugar to swarms?

Bee ´draw walls to cell according how cells are filled and they add walls when syrup level rises in the cell.

When combs are drawn, bees have not much stored sugar. If I give strong sugar syrup, hives store it and capp it.

I have feeded swarms a huge number.
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Language barrier NOT included

#### Two Bees

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##### Re: 1:1 vs 2:1 syrup
« Reply #6 on: June 04, 2010, 03:17:10 PM »
Make it simple..............put 5 pounds of sugar in a gallon milk jug, add hot tap water to fill it up, shake to dissolve, add a little more hot tap water to fill the jug completely, shake again to dissolve anything left over, and let cool before feeding to your hive.  Close enough for 1:1!   :-D
"Don't know what I'd do without that boy......but I'm sure willin' to give it a try!"
J.D. Clampett commenting about Jethro Bodine.

#### montauk170

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##### Re: 1:1 vs 2:1 syrup
« Reply #7 on: June 04, 2010, 03:43:18 PM »
Somewhat off topic, but what type of sugar is ok to use?

#### FRAMEshift

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##### Re: 1:1 vs 2:1 syrup
« Reply #8 on: June 04, 2010, 04:35:43 PM »
Somewhat off topic, but what type of sugar is ok to use?
Pure cane sugar.  You could also use powdered sugar but that's much more expensive.  Do not use brown sugar.
"You never can tell with bees."  --  Winnie-the-Pooh

#### AllenF

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##### Re: 1:1 vs 2:1 syrup
« Reply #9 on: June 04, 2010, 05:04:12 PM »
Store bought powder sugar has corn starch in it.  It will kill bee larva.

#### D Coates

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##### Re: 1:1 vs 2:1 syrup
« Reply #10 on: June 04, 2010, 06:17:40 PM »
Store bought powder sugar has corn starch in it.  It will kill bee larva.

What?  How?
Ninja, is not in the dictionary.  Well played Ninja's, well played...

#### iddee

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##### Re: 1:1 vs 2:1 syrup
« Reply #11 on: June 04, 2010, 06:19:16 PM »
>>>>You could use weight, like one pound to one pound, but that will not give the same concentration as 1 quart to 1 quart because the density of water is not the same as the density of sugar. <<<<

The difference is so minimal it won't make any difference. A pint of water is 1 lb. A pint of granulated sugar is very, very near a lb.
That's why we don't differentiate. A pint is a pound, when measuring water or sugar for feeding bees.
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*

#### iddee

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##### Re: 1:1 vs 2:1 syrup
« Reply #12 on: June 04, 2010, 06:20:33 PM »
>>>>Store bought powder sugar has corn starch in it.  It will kill bee larva. <<<<

If that were so, there wouldn't be a honeybee left in the USA.
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*

#### AllenF

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##### Re: 1:1 vs 2:1 syrup
« Reply #13 on: June 04, 2010, 07:01:07 PM »
Do you feed syrup from powdered sugar?   I have always been told not to feed them powdered sugar, brown sugar, molasses and any other unrefined sugar, that's is not good for bees. They can't handle the solids.   Why do you do shake powdered sugar on the bees for mites when the brood levels are low?

#### bull

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##### Re: 1:1 vs 2:1 syrup
« Reply #14 on: June 04, 2010, 07:14:11 PM »
i run 1 coffie pot to 4 pd bag and mix

#### iddee

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##### Re: 1:1 vs 2:1 syrup
« Reply #15 on: June 04, 2010, 07:56:14 PM »
My apologies.... I missed the word "powder". I was referring to granulated sugar. I'll try to read more carefully in the future.
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*

#### AllenF

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##### Re: 1:1 vs 2:1 syrup
« Reply #16 on: June 04, 2010, 08:00:09 PM »
Maybe I should have wrote powdered instead of powder?

#### Xperiment

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##### Re: 1:1 vs 2:1 syrup
« Reply #17 on: June 04, 2010, 09:45:57 PM »

The usual custom when you use a ratio like 1:1 or 2:1 is to use the same unit of measure for both species unless the units are explicitly defined.   And most especially not to mix units of volume, weight, molar concentration up.  1lb to 1lb, 1 pint to 1 pint, &c.   I have never in the chemical literature seen anyone use 1:1 to mean 1 drachma to 1 hectare or 1 cup to 1 lb &c.   It just becomes impossibly confusing if you do that.

Yours,
xperiment (research chemist)

#### rgy

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##### Re: 1:1 vs 2:1 syrup
« Reply #18 on: June 04, 2010, 10:54:17 PM »
thanks, as a new bee reading "beekeeping for dummies" they just gave the recipe for syrup as 5lbs to 2 1/2 quarts so I figured 1 lb for a qt meant 1:1.  but now I know it is quantity to quantity. and the 2:1 is early and late and the 1:1 is more to replicate a flow.  correct?

#### FRAMEshift

• Super Bee
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##### Re: 1:1 vs 2:1 syrup
« Reply #19 on: June 04, 2010, 11:51:20 PM »
>>>>You could use weight, like one pound to one pound, but that will not give the same concentration as 1 quart to 1 quart because the density of water is not the same as the density of sugar. <<<<

The difference is so minimal it won't make any difference. a pint of water is 1 lb. a pint of granulated sugar is very, very near a lb.
That's why we don't differentiate. a pint is a pound, when measuring water or sugar for feeding bees.
Hmmm.  Yes I guess you're right.  I was being too picky.  :-D
"You never can tell with bees."  --  Winnie-the-Pooh

#### Michael Bush

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##### Re: 1:1 vs 2:1 syrup
« Reply #20 on: June 05, 2010, 06:51:34 AM »
All of the above questions and more are here:
http://www.bushfarms.com/beesfeeding.htm

As mentioned you have 1:1.  A pint of sugar is a pound.  A pound of water is a pint.
http://www.bushfarms.com/beesfeeding.htm#weightorvolume

I use 2:1 all the time as it spoils less and is less to haul to the beeyard...
http://www.bushfarms.com/beesfeeding.htm#ratios

White granulated sugar:
http://www.bushfarms.com/beesfeeding.htm#kindofsugar
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm en espanol: bushfarms.com/es_bees.htm  auf deutsche: bushfarms.com/de_bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
-------------------
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#### rgy

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##### Re: 1:1 vs 2:1 syrup
« Reply #21 on: June 05, 2010, 08:45:29 AM »
how do you know if it si spoiled?????

anything