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Author Topic: Plastic Foundation in Supers  (Read 2886 times)

Offline dp

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Plastic Foundation in Supers
« on: May 25, 2010, 04:34:59 PM »
I recently added a super to a very populated two deep hive with well over 7/10 frames full.  The super, is a new super with plastic foundation.  I added it close to two weeks ago, and upon inspection, there is no drawn comb on any of it.  I've heard that spraying sugar water solution will help, or possibly painting with bees wax.  I didn't add a queen excluder, because I thought that they should get some comb built before I restricted any movement.

Am I overreacting?  Should I just give it time?  We have had a very cold wet spring, so maybe they just need more time.

I know there are a lot of opinions on plastic, duraglit and just plain bees wax.  Is there a better or worse product for a new beekeeper?

Offline AllenF

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Re: Plastic Foundation in Supers
« Reply #1 on: May 25, 2010, 04:49:09 PM »
If it is not wax coated, you may need to wax that sucker.   Are they on wood frames on the first box?   They will move up in time.

Offline slacker361

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Re: Plastic Foundation in Supers
« Reply #2 on: May 25, 2010, 10:01:51 PM »
mine have wax on them, and I sprayed them with sugar water also, nothing, then I intermixed the plastic and the wood, one wood then one plastic then one wood, rinse repeat.LOL one i did that they started to drawout the plastic

Offline riverrat

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Re: Plastic Foundation in Supers
« Reply #3 on: May 25, 2010, 10:17:55 PM »
unless you have a stong flow going on in your area they wont pull out plastic. i have found that my bees will pull wax foundation quicker than plastic especially if the flow is not strong
never take the top off a hive on a day that you wouldn't want the roof taken off your house

Offline Ollie

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Re: Plastic Foundation in Supers
« Reply #4 on: May 25, 2010, 11:54:31 PM »
sometimes the wax from the factory is a little thin, I grab a chunk of wax, rub it all over the foundation and then hit it with a heat gun for a few seconds..seem to help a little, spray with sugar water helps too.
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Offline Grandpa Jim

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Re: Plastic Foundation in Supers
« Reply #5 on: May 26, 2010, 12:52:39 AM »
Here is an experiment I did brushing wax in 2 stripes on a frame.
http://img27.imageshack.us/i/perrcocomb001.jpg/

Checked back 1 week later and this is what I found.
 http://img227.imageshack.us/i/perrcocomb021.jpg/

I would say brushing on wax does help.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2010, 01:04:32 AM by Grandpa Jim »

Offline AllenF

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Re: Plastic Foundation in Supers
« Reply #6 on: May 26, 2010, 09:49:47 AM »
That is a good pic.  Good post.   Night and day.   Yes, the wax helps out, a lot.

Offline greenbtree

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Re: Plastic Foundation in Supers
« Reply #7 on: May 26, 2010, 09:58:34 AM »
I second Allen.  Great pic.  More to the point - great experiment!  A beekeeper that actually runs an experiment and finds out.  Sign of the apocalypse for sure... :-D

JC
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Offline RZRBCK BEE

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Re: Plastic Foundation in Supers
« Reply #8 on: May 26, 2010, 11:06:36 AM »
I am impressed. Thanks for sharing.  :)

Offline John Schwartz

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Re: Plastic Foundation in Supers
« Reply #9 on: May 26, 2010, 11:09:47 AM »
Awesome, Grandpa Jim. Curious, how strong (relatively) was the hive you did the experiment with? Was it in lower/upper brood chamber?
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Offline dp

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Re: Plastic Foundation in Supers
« Reply #10 on: May 26, 2010, 12:38:29 PM »
That is a great experiment.  I just added the super and I don't think I have a very good nectar flow in my area at this time.  I think I will pull it off and get some bee's wax on there.

GJ, what time of year was this experiment conducted?

Thanks for the info.

Offline Two Bees

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Re: Plastic Foundation in Supers
« Reply #11 on: May 26, 2010, 02:51:20 PM »
Well, I guess that settles that question................bees do prefer wax foundation!
"Don't know what I'd do without that boy......but I'm sure willin' to give it a try!"
J.D. Clampett commenting about Jethro Bodine.

Offline Grandpa Jim

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Re: Plastic Foundation in Supers
« Reply #12 on: May 26, 2010, 04:55:34 PM »
Thanks. The frame was placed in a single deep that was ready for a second hive body to be added.  It was a strong single.  It was last June when I did the experiment and there was obviously nectar coming in at the time.
Jim

Offline Ollie

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Re: Plastic Foundation in Supers
« Reply #13 on: May 27, 2010, 12:27:24 AM »
Nice!

Theory validated.
 :-D
Life is good...Make it gooder!

Offline Thymaridas

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Re: Plastic Foundation in Supers
« Reply #14 on: May 27, 2010, 09:43:33 AM »
I have to agree about plastic foundation. I experimented this Spring with black plastic foundation in the brood chamber in 4 hives. I alternated drawn comb with new foundation. I waxed and sprayed it, and after 4 weeks pulled the frames with plastic foundationand replaced it with Duragilt, which bees love. It took them less than a week to pull that out.

They wouldn't draw the comb out straight. I mean it was all over the place. In some they actually made the cells perpendicular to the foundation and crosscombed with the adjacent frame. Some was attached by a thin spine and then pulled out like they were paper wasps. They just hated it.

I may try again, because many of my friends say that this was atypical.

Have fun!

Offline wd

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Re: Plastic Foundation in Supers
« Reply #15 on: May 28, 2010, 04:14:06 AM »
May I ask, how much wax per frame, the age of the wax, smell, is it mixed with honey or?

Offline Thymaridas

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Re: Plastic Foundation in Supers
« Reply #16 on: May 28, 2010, 06:31:23 AM »
The wax was thick enough to give the foundation a strong yellow hue. The wax was from last years crop. This particular wax was from crushed comb and honey and so had a very pleasant honey smell. I sprayed with 1:1 syrup.

Offline wd

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Re: Plastic Foundation in Supers
« Reply #17 on: May 28, 2010, 11:06:59 AM »
thanks

Online D Coates

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Re: Plastic Foundation in Supers
« Reply #18 on: May 28, 2010, 04:56:38 PM »
sometimes the wax from the factory is a little thin, I grab a chunk of wax, rub it all over the foundation and then hit it with a heat gun for a few seconds..seem to help a little, spray with sugar water helps too.

Now that's a good idea!
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Offline wd

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Re: Plastic Foundation in Supers
« Reply #19 on: May 28, 2010, 05:26:46 PM »

May I ask, how much wax per frame, the age of the wax, smell, is it mixed with honey or?

I'm thinking about buying some wax for older pierco frames since I don't have any to speak of from years past. Some frames haven't been used and the wax coating is brittle scales others I've cleaned.

I've been against buying wax for this purpose, what are thoughts?
-
aw never mind ... I was reluctant in asking to begin with. think I'll go ahead wait.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2010, 06:31:52 PM by wd »

Offline dp

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Re: Plastic Foundation in Supers
« Reply #20 on: May 28, 2010, 07:32:28 PM »
Ok, I went and bought some wax, so I'm going to paint some on.   I'll keep you posted.  Not sure it's going to make much difference until the weather changes a little bit.  We are having a very cool damp spring in Southern Oregon.  Great answers, thanks for all of the input.

Offline Wynoochee_newbee_guy

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Re: Plastic Foundation in Supers
« Reply #21 on: May 29, 2010, 12:52:46 AM »
There is no nectar flow right now in the Pacific North west. Too much rain
Its All Fun And Games Till I lose an EYE!

Offline dp

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Re: Plastic Foundation in Supers
« Reply #22 on: May 30, 2010, 04:03:10 PM »
so...should I be feeding, or just hang on for the blackberries?  They are just starting to bloom in my area, but more cool wet weather predicted  :-x

Online kathyp

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Re: Plastic Foundation in Supers
« Reply #23 on: May 30, 2010, 04:14:45 PM »
what do they have fore stores and are your frames drawn out.  you have to go by what's inside.
.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

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Offline AllenF

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Re: Plastic Foundation in Supers
« Reply #24 on: May 31, 2010, 09:51:46 PM »
I have some old frames that got ate up by the moths a whole back and after I cleaned them up with the pressure washer, I just stuck them in the basement out of the rotation.   I bet they don't have the wax coating left on them anymore since the cleaning.    When I put them back into rotation, I bet I need to rewax the boogers.   What does every body think would be best or easiest, dipping or brushing?  Keep in mind, there were just a handful of sheets to rewax.

Offline Grandpa Jim

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Re: Plastic Foundation in Supers
« Reply #25 on: June 01, 2010, 02:10:20 AM »
A little wax melted in a old pan (that will be dedicated to only wax now) and a real cheep brush (not because I am cheep, they just work well) will go a long way coating those frames.

Offline luvin honey

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Re: Plastic Foundation in Supers
« Reply #26 on: June 01, 2010, 04:07:05 PM »
I second Allen.  Great pic.  More to the point - great experiment!  a beekeeper that actually runs an experiment and finds out. 
JC
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