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Author Topic: supering topbar  (Read 3705 times)
whiteflyer
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« on: May 11, 2010, 06:23:07 PM »

has anyone put a super on a ktbh? mine built with mb plans. if so how did u allow access to super?
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ccwonka
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« Reply #1 on: May 11, 2010, 10:16:40 PM »

I think part of the point is not to have to super . . . I guess if you wanted to though you could just leave a single frame (bar) out and they could get up there just fine.

 How long is your hive?  Are you having space issues? I just populated my first KTHB this week!  Gonna open her up tomorrow and see how the comb is going!!

CC
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bbhb
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« Reply #2 on: May 12, 2010, 01:53:25 PM »

see Question 24:
http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/academic/agriculture/entomology/beekeeping/general/management/top_bar_faqs/tbhf.html
« Last Edit: December 04, 2010, 12:08:21 PM by buzzbee » Logged
RyanB
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« Reply #3 on: May 12, 2010, 05:18:36 PM »

I had to do this last year, I had a 36" hive.  I took a top bar and cut out a small area for them to get above in.  I then built a simple square box that fit over the top bars and hat it's own top bars. To encourage the bees to move up into it I had to put a TB with comb on it that reached down to the opening TB below. Otherwise it was too much space for them to cross.
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Michael Bush
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« Reply #4 on: May 15, 2010, 08:58:48 AM »

They don't seem very interested in a super if they don't have free access, like the space between the bars on the Langstroth.
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Michael Bush
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whiteflyer
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« Reply #5 on: May 15, 2010, 10:59:22 AM »

I did make a space by routing some of the 1.5 inch bars to allow for a bee space. Have you tried this?
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Michael Bush
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« Reply #6 on: May 15, 2010, 11:36:32 PM »

Yes I have.  If the bees accept that as part of the hive it will work fine.  The gaps will help a lot.
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Michael Bush
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Burnsy
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« Reply #7 on: November 29, 2010, 10:08:04 PM »

Has ayone tried spacing their existing topbars with 6mm spacers to allow access to a super rather than routing out their topbars?  Mine are already built out with comb so routing them out is not an option.  I am wondering if the 6mm will be enought to encourage the build of cross comb or whether they will continue on as they are.

I like the idea of trailling the use of my TBH as a brood box and only removing honey from an 8 frame super placed on top.  I built my TBH with this in mind so my topbars are actually long enough to sit a standard super on top of them.
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bbhb
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« Reply #8 on: November 30, 2010, 01:09:20 PM »

I supered using a warré box. It was set on top of the existing honey stores. I already had spacers between the top bars in the honey area, so all I had to do was remove a few spacers to give the bees access to the super. I spread the bars apart a bit more, to about 9mm, and they went up no problem. You can see the gaps in the 6th picture in this Flickr set. http://bit.ly/ggw2xC
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Burnsy
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« Reply #9 on: November 30, 2010, 07:55:46 PM »

I supered using a warré box. It was set on top of the existing honey stores. I already had spacers between the top bars in the honey area, so all I had to do was remove a few spacers to give the bees access to the super. I spread the bars apart a bit more, to about 9mm, and they went up no problem.
Thanks, that is exactly what I am hoping to do but with an 8 frame WSP box.  Did you have any trouble with the bees building cross comb in the TBH with the spaced bars?  What is the width of your top bars?
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bbhb
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« Reply #10 on: December 01, 2010, 01:16:32 PM »

The combs were already built out before I removed the spacers and supered. I pulled one capped honeycomb and put in a brand new top bar for them to build on. It was one of the bars b/n the gaps, but I don't recall what they hung from that top bar. I'll have to check my photo archives. I know we didn't have any problems with cross combing.

My top bars are 1 3/8" wide and the spacers are 1/8". They are only 14 1/2" long (just 12" for the girls to actually hang comb from). We had some cross-combing in the super itself, due the the honey combs being about 1 3/4" thick, not from the bars being gapped, though.
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BjornBee
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« Reply #11 on: December 03, 2010, 07:11:49 AM »

I don't really get the whole going with TBH's, then supering. It makes me wonder why anyone would decide on a TBH from the start.

If you want foundationless comb as seen in a TBH, you can always go with a trench or long hive. This uses traditional Langstroth equipment, and gives you the flexibility of supering, hive top feeders, etc.

Here is a link with a picture of a trench style hive with natural comb and supering.

http://www.bjornapiaries.com/uniquebeekeeping.html

Hope this helps.
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Burnsy
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« Reply #12 on: December 04, 2010, 06:24:34 AM »

Well I did it today, put spacers between 8 of my topbar frames (all holding brood) and put an 8 frame super on top.  As I mentioned earlier all my topbars ar 20 inch as I built the hive with the view to being able to experiment with this.  Lang frames in the hive with wax starter strips on each.  Now I will watch and see what happens.

Bjorn, I went with a topbar as my first hive as I wanted to build my own hive and liked the idea.  I am also a tinkerer so feel the need to experiment and try different things so the idea of supering the topbar came into the equation during the design stage.  I do have an 8 frame lang hive as well so this super can always go straight onto that if the topbar bees don't like it.
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BjornBee
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« Reply #13 on: December 04, 2010, 07:36:01 AM »

Burnsey,
I love tinkering also.   Wink

With the additional spacing now placed between the brood comb frames, will they not draw out the corners where they likely store some honey, making "bulges" in the comb? Bees many times try to beep "bee spacing" correct. It's like taking 10 frames of comb and deciding to make it a 9 frame box. The bees will draw out the comb to fill in the area between the wide gap now between the combs. Which is the desire for running 9 frame honey boxes. In the brood chamber you may not see this as whole combs, but I'm guessing they will mess up a good portion in the corner and even add burr comb where needed to fill in such voids.


And by doing so, this expands the brood chamber and the area the bees must keep warm at night. Perhaps not a problem in Australia, but others with colder night temps should reconsider such an idea. So the negative impacts of this could be from several points.

Also....bees do not need that much (8 gaps or spacers) of an area to access a super and fill it. Spacing between 8 frames is way over kill. Here is a picture of a empty super filled with comb and honey all by bees using the inner cover hole, with no access to this area except through the inner cover hole. You can further the access by using an upper entrance also. I would consider one or two gaps and an upper entrance.

http://www.bjornapiaries.com/combinformation.html

Hope this helps.

« Last Edit: December 04, 2010, 11:04:18 AM by BjornBee » Logged

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bbhb
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« Reply #14 on: February 08, 2011, 06:25:53 PM »

I don't really get the whole going with TBH's, then supering. It makes me wonder why anyone would decide on a TBH from the start.

It might help to put aside some presumptions. I chose a TBH because 1) I wanted to keep bees 2) I didn't want to spend a lot of money on a hive and 3) I liked that TBHs don't look like hives (i.e.: scream to the neighbors "we've got bees!"). It had nothing to do with going "natural" or foundationless or any of the other ideologies people like to attach to TBH beekeeping. For me it boiled down to the fact that I wanted to cheaply keep bees on the down-low.

Addendum:
Mea culpa. This post was not meant to point a finger at BjornBee, but since his question was posted so long ago, and there were posts in between, I quoted him. But really, my goal was to help ANYONE wondering why one might choose a TBH.

Also, I wasn't trying to hijack the thread by making it about me. I just thought that perhaps ONE person saying why they chose a TBH might be useful somehow. To someone. (Oh, and I wanted to bump up this thread as I saw another one re: supering had been started.)

Lastly, it's now obvious to me that I don't get the premise of a forum. I always thought of a forum as a support group. A place where people get help with burning questions. Not so much a place where one goes for stimulating thought. So, with that realization, I'm out.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2011, 03:13:49 PM by bbhb » Logged
BjornBee
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« Reply #15 on: February 08, 2011, 07:46:14 PM »

I don't really get the whole going with TBH's, then supering. It makes me wonder why anyone would decide on a TBH from the start.

It might help to put aside some presumptions. I chose a TBH because 1) I wanted to keep bees 2) I didn't want to spend a lot of money on a hive and 3) I liked that TBHs don't look like hives (i.e.: scream to the neighbors "we've got bees!"). It had nothing to do with going "natural" or foundationless or any of the other ideologies people like to attach to TBH beekeeping. For me it boiled down to the fact that I wanted to cheaply keep bees on the down-low.

Do you actually get the whole premise of a forum? A place where people voice their opinions. A place for contrasting viewpoints. A place where perhaps what others say, may be different than your own. If you have an opinion, then express it. But please hold back your advice calling for others to put aside presumptions. I can, as well as you, make any freaking presumption one wants too.

I stand by my "presumption". I wasn't even directly speaking to you. But perhaps you should take some of your own demands you cast towards others, and check your presumptions at the door. Pretty vain to suggest myself would care what, why, or how, you choose to keep bees.
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Michael Bush
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« Reply #16 on: February 09, 2011, 04:43:06 AM »

>Has ayone tried spacing their existing topbars with 6mm spacers to allow access to a super rather than routing out their topbars?

Yes.  But unless they are capped already, they build those combs out thicker which causes issues later.
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Michael Bush
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BjornBee
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« Reply #17 on: February 09, 2011, 07:19:29 AM »

>Has ayone tried spacing their existing topbars with 6mm spacers to allow access to a super rather than routing out their topbars?

Yes.  But unless they are capped already, they build those combs out thicker which causes issues later.

I can see the problem with 6mm. But what about 3/8 inch spacers?  rolleyes
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organicfarmer
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« Reply #18 on: February 20, 2011, 08:57:09 PM »

Well my guess is that with 9 mm (3/8) they'll keep drawing even thicker combs !!
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