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Author Topic: Bought a Nuc with Chalkbrood. Who’s to blame?  (Read 2023 times)
romduck
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« on: May 07, 2010, 02:34:57 PM »

Just picked up two nucs on 5/5/10. They look okay when I picked them up, but I saw on today’s inspection that one has chalkbrood.  shocked Little white and grey mummies littered the screened bottom board.  Cry

First time I’ve had to deal with this, but I understand that I need to just give them syrup, time and ventilation. Any other recommendations for a Spring nuc?

Is this something that I should be upset about, having just picked this nuc up, or is it just one of those things?

-Rom
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Rommie L. Duckworth
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« Reply #1 on: May 07, 2010, 04:58:30 PM »

Over my head, but I'm replying so the answers show up in my replies.
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Michael Bush
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« Reply #2 on: May 08, 2010, 03:33:26 AM »

Somtimes it was just a cold snap and chilled brood that sets off chalkbrood.  Sometimes its genetics.  Sometimes its because the nuc drifted too much after making it up leaving it short of bees to keep the brood warm or clean out infested brood.
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Michael Bush
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romduck
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« Reply #3 on: May 08, 2010, 07:36:27 AM »

Got it. So do my job to help them out with what they need (syrup, ventilation, etc) and keep an eye on them as they build up.

If they have a real hard time, I may need to replace the queen or just forget them altogether.

Either way it sounds like it isn’t something that they supplier did, necessarily.

Thank you Michael.
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« Reply #4 on: May 09, 2010, 08:43:25 AM »

Ventilation may sometimes contribute.  But it seems to me that with a weak hive, like a nuc, chilled brood seems to be a more likely culprit.  I'd keep them warm, rather than ventilate...
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« Reply #5 on: May 09, 2010, 12:04:42 PM »

there was a study about chalkbrood and temp.  maybe you can google it and find it.  don't remember how good a study it was or even much about it, except that it recommended higher temps for defeating chalkbrood.

it's something i have dealt  with here, and most of the time it is self-limiting.  sometimes it's not........
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« Reply #6 on: May 09, 2010, 12:36:53 PM »

the study was by phil stark at tufts:
http://ase.tufts.edu/biology/labs/starks/PDF/Starks%20et%20al.%202000.pdf

basically, the colony raised the hive temp when chalkbrood was introduced (presumably to help fight the infection), and lowered it back down when the infection was physically removed.

deknow
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romduck
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« Reply #7 on: May 09, 2010, 01:26:49 PM »

Wow. Great info gang. Thanks, as always.

Of course, tonight and tomorrow, temps drop here in CT to the low 30’s. If the ladies make it through, then we’ll be able to get them warm in the coming weeks.
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Rommie L. Duckworth
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« Reply #8 on: May 09, 2010, 02:31:15 PM »

.
Keep the nuc warm. Don't add ventilition.

Bye a new queen and hope that it uis not sensitive to chalkbrood.

Syrup helps nothing.

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Scadsobees
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« Reply #9 on: May 10, 2010, 12:54:32 PM »

I seem to remember reading somewhere(maybe here?) that nucs are more susceptible to chalkbrood for some reason.  Maybe it is the stress or the cooler temps.

At anyrate, I think your course of action is correct and your ideas are spot on.

Rick
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« Reply #10 on: May 17, 2010, 03:57:06 PM »

.
Nowadays I kill all queens which show tendency to chaklbrood. So I have got ridd of chalkbrood.
I need only extra colonies to do that and keep that disease off.

Who is to blame?  - If I get non tolerant queens from professionals breeders. It they have the chalkbrood, it is the last time I bye queens from them.

Last autumn I bought an expencive inseminated queen and now this spring it shows chalkbrood. Not good.

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« Reply #11 on: May 17, 2010, 11:59:24 PM »

Same thing happened to me last year.  I got exited.  I then found it in all my hives and figured I spread it around with my hive tool.  I probably was to blame inspecting my bees when to cool and windy like a kid in a candy store.  Have not seen it this year, yet!
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« Reply #12 on: May 19, 2010, 01:48:50 AM »

Chalkbrood is normally a stress disease.
That stress can be bad temps, high humidity, weak genetics, poor population, or otherwise.
Relieve the stress and the contagious elements of sick brood frames and the disease will subside.
---------------------------------
I'm not convinced on the theory of "brood fever".

If there is failed brood in the hive, the colony is going to compensate by trying to produce more larvae to make up for the sick. The larger quantity of brood itself can induce a higher temp in the hive.

I can argue just as well that if I believe C/B to be an dampness issue, the bees maybe naturally more active to fan more moisture out of the hive. That instinct can raise the hive temperature just as well.

I could also argue that if there are sick larvae to be removed, there maybe less bees to regulate hive temp, as they act as mortuary bees.

I mean if this is really the answer, why don't we just put heating pads under chalkbrood hives until they get well?

My worse problem with this study is that it works with one frame of bees.
This is far from any normal construction of a colony.
A two frame observation hive has no where near the thermal dynamics of a 8 or 10 frame colony.
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Michael Bush
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« Reply #13 on: May 19, 2010, 02:00:19 AM »

>I mean if this is really the answer, why don't we just put heating pads under chalkbrood hives until they get well?

That might actually work very well...

>My worse problem with this study is that it works with one frame of bees.
This is far from any normal construction of a colony.
a two frame observation hive has no where near the thermal dynamics of a 8 or 10 frame colony.

Typical problem with all experiments...
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Michael Bush
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Finski
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« Reply #14 on: May 20, 2010, 11:23:18 PM »

Chalkbrood is normally a stress disease.
That stress can be bad temps, high humidity, weak genetics, poor population, or otherwise.
Relieve the stress and the contagious elements of sick brood frames and the disease will subside.
---------------------------------
I'm not convinced on the theory of "brood fever".

.------------------------------------------------

Explaining helps nothing.

I have  figted my chalkbrood  away from my yard. It was bad 15 years and then I tired on it.

I byed new queens from different sources to my yard. I want to find resistant genes to my genepool and then I reared lots of queens and start to select.
Every queen which showed a tendency

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Finski
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« Reply #15 on: May 20, 2010, 11:32:28 PM »

.forum window is vibrating I continue here...

Every queen which showed chalkbrood I cast away. First year I must kill 50% of my new queens.
One mother hive had 80%  diease daugters. I reared them about 30 queens.

Another had 20% disease daughters.

With absolute selecting I got ridd of disease in 3 years. After that
I have killed 1-2 queen in spring when they show tencendy to the disease. I have exrta nucs and it is the method.

Last summer I bought an inseminated queen for rearing but this spring it showed shalbrood. So it is out of question.

In my climate chilly weathers are the main reason to the disease burst. If weathers are rainy for 2 weeks, chalkbrood appears in hives. It means that bees are not able to keep all brood warm enough.
.
It has been reported that varroa has made the chalkbrood worse.
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