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Author Topic: Gun Ban Sign  (Read 10912 times)
kathyp
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« Reply #120 on: May 06, 2010, 07:58:53 PM »

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Who, exactly, is trying to get into Mexico

Mexico has a problem with illegals from central and south America.  some are passing through on there way here.  some are there to stay.  none are welcome and are jailed and deported when they are caught.  Mexico does not accept the excuse that "things are bad where they come from".
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #121 on: May 06, 2010, 08:00:34 PM »

Quote
Who, exactly, is trying to get into Mexico

Mexico has a problem with illegals from central and south America.  some are passing through on there way here.  some are there to stay.  none are welcome and are jailed and deported when they are caught.  Mexico does not accept the excuse that "things are bad where they come from".
I guess we are determined to continue in the wrong thread. My husband's cousin works border patrol. He used to work in Texas. His job all day long was to deport illegal immigrants. We don't accept that excuse either. Guess we just don't have enough people to staff the entire border. And I guess Mexicans have pretty pressing reasons to take the risks they do to get here.
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The pedigree of honey
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kathyp
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« Reply #122 on: May 06, 2010, 08:01:14 PM »

i have no problem with immigrants.  my family  has only been here 3 generations.  i have a problem with ILLEGALS, where ever they come from.  there is a way to come here legally.  many people spend many years doing it the right way, and eventually becoming citizens.  how disrespectful of their effort to let people just wander in because.....
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
luvin honey
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« Reply #123 on: May 06, 2010, 08:03:51 PM »

Sounds like we need more taxpayer dollars to go to guarding the border. Or something.
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The pedigree of honey
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kathyp
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« Reply #124 on: May 06, 2010, 08:05:57 PM »

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His job all day long was to deport illegal immigrants. We don't accept that excuse either. Guess we just don't have enough people to staff the entire border. And I guess Mexicans have pretty pressing reasons to take the risks they do to get here.  
 
  
 


he had a tough and dangerous job.  all the more reason to make the borders secure.  what is the pressing reason that is acceptable for breaking the law?  if i am hungry and steal from a store is that ok?  if i don't have a car and take yours, is that ok?  what if you have more money than i?  should i be able to rob you?  there is even an avenue for "pressing reasons" like political and religious persecution for getting into the country.  

unfortunately, we are no longer talking about a few farm workers who want to send $ back to Mexico.  we are talking about drugs, kidnapping, rape, and slavery.  many of those victimized are Mexicans.  
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
luvin honey
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« Reply #125 on: May 06, 2010, 08:10:20 PM »

If my children were starving, who knows what I would do? I often think of the saying, "There, but for the grace of God, go I." Guess I'm lucky to have land, health, relative youth, relatively stable economy, decent-paying job and a lot more. Who knows what I would do in their shoes? I'd like to think I'd die rather than steal from or hurt another person. But if my kids were chronically hungry? Can't say for sure.
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The pedigree of honey
Does not concern the bee;
A clover, any time, to him
Is aristocracy.
---Emily Dickinson
kathyp
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« Reply #126 on: May 06, 2010, 08:20:46 PM »

you might do something.  you would still face the consequences of your actions.  you would not expect to break the law and have nothing happen to you if you were caught?

there is one consequence that i think we could apply to illegals that might make some of  them think twice.  that would be to disqualify them from ever entering legally if they were caught here illegally.  if they really wanted to come to this country for work or a future, they might be willing to do it the right way if they knew it was the only way. i would apply that to people with expired visas and passports as well.   
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
luvin honey
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« Reply #127 on: May 06, 2010, 08:23:19 PM »

Course I would face the consequences. It's what I teach my kids everyday.

I think your idea is a great one! It would be interesting, though, to note how many people are seeking citizenship compared to how many are allowed to enter each year. My guess is that the 2 numbers are wildly different and that is probably why so many seek illegal entry.
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The pedigree of honey
Does not concern the bee;
A clover, any time, to him
Is aristocracy.
---Emily Dickinson
kathyp
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« Reply #128 on: May 06, 2010, 08:39:07 PM »

true, but many come for work, school, and visits.  there is no reason not to apply it to all.  we already know some of what happens when we don't pay attention to those who have overstayed visas.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
luvin honey
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« Reply #129 on: May 06, 2010, 08:47:01 PM »

You know, it strikes me that this is about 2 different ways to view citizenry: As citizens of a country or as citizens of the world.
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The pedigree of honey
Does not concern the bee;
A clover, any time, to him
Is aristocracy.
---Emily Dickinson
kathyp
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« Reply #130 on: May 06, 2010, 08:53:18 PM »

when the world starts paying our welfare and legal costs, i'll worry about world citizenship.  so you really want to be a "citizen of the world"?  i've seen a lot of it.  i don't want world citizenship.  being an American citizen is a privilege and an honor.  you will find that most immigrants feel the same.  unfortunately, many multi-generation Americans do not.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
luvin honey
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« Reply #131 on: May 06, 2010, 08:56:40 PM »

I love it here Smiley What I mean is that I don't believe the world and its problems are only as big as America. If there is a huge disparity between life in America and life in Mexico, and we have contributed to that, I would want to take at look at how, why and what we can do to fix it. Back to prevention instead of band-aiding the problem, which seems to not be working so well.

And one form of patriotism is not just unquestioning allegiance to the flag. It is incredibly patriotic to take a look at what one's own country is not doing so well and try to think up ways to fix it.
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The pedigree of honey
Does not concern the bee;
A clover, any time, to him
Is aristocracy.
---Emily Dickinson
kathyp
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« Reply #132 on: May 06, 2010, 09:08:08 PM »

i would argue that our contribution to their problems is less than our contribution to their economy.  we import tons of produce from them.  we buy their oil.  we give them aid.  we help with their law enforcement problems.  our tourists spend lots of money there.

i used to hang out in Mexico quite a bit.  there is massive corruption in all levels of government.  Mexico could be a rich country with a high standard of living, but they have chosen graft over good government and the people pay the price.  the people have some responsibility for their own condition.  year after year the elect the same kind of people.  the last two presidents have been the first in my (long) life to try to clean things up.  it will take a very long time to fix what has been a way of life for generations.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
luvin honey
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« Reply #133 on: May 06, 2010, 09:13:12 PM »

I can add that to my list of things to be grateful for: Relatively well-functioning and somewhat honest gov't Smiley

Now, I am going to bow out of this conversation...
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The pedigree of honey
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A clover, any time, to him
Is aristocracy.
---Emily Dickinson
Jerrymac
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« Reply #134 on: May 07, 2010, 01:05:48 AM »

Yes I have been pulled over without any ID. I was not allowed to go until they were certain I was who I said I was. Not I was not hauled down town, but I was detained for awhile on sight.

If you are legally walking down the street not doing anything wrong. Then you do not need ID. If you look suspicious then you might be questioned.
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