Need Bees Removed?
International
Beekeeping Forums
July 26, 2014, 11:37:58 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
News: Beemaster's official FACEBOOK page
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar bee removal Login Register Chat(1)  

Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 [6] 7   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Gun Ban Sign  (Read 10946 times)
kathyp
Universal Bee
*******
Online Online

Gender: Female
Posts: 15027


Location: boring, oregon


« Reply #100 on: May 06, 2010, 07:08:09 PM »

Quote
Obama is so moderate that I can hardly tell the difference between him and Bush. Who is the extreme left in control of our gov't?


well, you have a good sense of humor

i assume you are talking about the AZ law.  i'll have to assume you have not read it and are also not familiar with federal immigration law.

let me ask you:  if the current govt could outlaw the private ownership of guns with no fear of backlash, do you think they would do it?  again i am making the assumption that you are familiar with the positions of those in govenment.......if not, you may look up each and their positions on gun control.  most have made their positions public, including often introducing legislation to limit ownership of guns.
Logged

.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
iddee
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 5903

Location: Randleman, NC


« Reply #101 on: May 06, 2010, 07:15:04 PM »

Do you really, really, not know the difference between a citizen and a law breaking, illegal, non-citizen? WOW! And I had been giving you some credit.
Logged

"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*
luvin honey
Super Bee
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 1540

Location: Central WI


« Reply #102 on: May 06, 2010, 07:17:12 PM »

Quote
Obama is so moderate that I can hardly tell the difference between him and Bush. Who is the extreme left in control of our gov't?


well, you have a good sense of humor

i assume you are talking about the AZ law.  i'll have to assume you have not read it and are also not familiar with federal immigration law.

let me ask you:  if the current govt could outlaw the private ownership of guns with no fear of backlash, do you think they would do it?  again i am making the assumption that you are familiar with the positions of those in govenment.......if not, you may look up each and their positions on gun control.  most have made their positions public, including often introducing legislation to limit ownership of guns.
I have a GREAT sense of humor, and recognition of sarcasm Smiley

I have not read the AZ law. My point is that while some people hate gov't intervention, what they really hate is gov't intervention in SOME things and they really want it in OTHER things.

I think your last question is a moot point. There WOULD be backlash. By people owning things that kill other people. In a county where guns have been a part of our lives since its inception. That said, should EVERYone own guns? And use them wherever, whenever and however they want? I don't think so. I think with rights come responsibility. And since irresponsibility with guns leads to death, some people should be controlled in their "rights" to own a gun. To your question, yes, I'm sure some politicians would like to see guns banned. Probably some politicians would like to belong to the KKK, legalize marijuana, ban beekeeping, or allow sex change operations to be covered by taxpayer dollars. So what? That doesn't mean it's going to happen.

Since you used the car analogy, that would apply here also. We don't freak over speed limits, seatbelt laws, vehicular homicide leading to consequences, etc. We don't get paranoid that the next step is having our cars taken away. And guns have been part of American's lives since before cars.

I guess my suggestion would be to vote for those who protect the rights you want, use your guns responsibly and fight tooth and nail any legislation that makes you feel like your rights are encroached upon.
Logged

The pedigree of honey
Does not concern the bee;
A clover, any time, to him
Is aristocracy.
---Emily Dickinson
luvin honey
Super Bee
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 1540

Location: Central WI


« Reply #103 on: May 06, 2010, 07:22:32 PM »

Do you really, really, not know the difference between a citizen and a law breaking, illegal, non-citizen? WOW! And I had been giving you some credit.
Thanks for giving me some credit! Smiley

Since I have not read the law, I'm speaking a bit in the dark. My concern about the law, from what I have heard, is that it would lead to profiling of law-abiding citizens. My secondary concern is that it is tackling the symptoms of a problem instead of getting to the cause.

As long as living is better in America than Mexico, wages better here than there, we're simply sticking our finger in the hole in the dam. And as long as we in the U.S. buy cheaply made goods made in factories employing illegal immigrants, eat food butchered by them, etc., we are at fault also.

I would be cautious of any law requiring citizens to carry documentation. I would personally freak if the gov't starting requiring me to carry proof of citizenship. And I am a legal citizen. I would rather the gov't be involved in things that I believe they belong in and that are more important to me.

That said, I live in WI and have had only safe, pleasant and nice experiences here with immigrants. If I had suffered at the hands of illegal immigrants, it's possible I would feel quite differently.
Logged

The pedigree of honey
Does not concern the bee;
A clover, any time, to him
Is aristocracy.
---Emily Dickinson
kathyp
Universal Bee
*******
Online Online

Gender: Female
Posts: 15027


Location: boring, oregon


« Reply #104 on: May 06, 2010, 07:24:32 PM »

Quote
I have not read the AZ law. My point is that while some people hate gov't intervention, what they really hate is gov't intervention in SOME things and they really want it in OTHER things.

government does have it's roll.  one thing government is supposed to do is protect it's borders and make sure the laws of the land are enforced.  it has been the law for some time that you do not enter or stay in the country without going through certain processes.  
Quote
Probably some politicians would like to belong to the KKK, legalize marijuana, ban beekeeping, or allow sex change operations to be covered by taxpayer dollars. So what? That doesn't mean it's going to happen.


thank you for making my point.  all those things have happened.

there is hope for you if you are surrounded by conservatives.  very rarely does a conservative become a liberal, but very often a liberal becomes a conservative.  eventually, we mature, and the fantasy of liberalism gives way to the reality of life.
 Wink
Logged

.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
kathyp
Universal Bee
*******
Online Online

Gender: Female
Posts: 15027


Location: boring, oregon


« Reply #105 on: May 06, 2010, 07:30:39 PM »

Quote
from what I have heard, is that it would lead to profiling of law-abiding citizens. My secondary concern is that it is tackling the symptoms of a problem instead of getting to the cause.


i posted the link to the law.  read it.  what you heard is wrong.  the law already requires those here on visa or green card to carry proof of legal residency. 

yes, it does attack the symptom and not the cause.  unfortunately, the state of AZ can not control the international border.  that is something the feds should be doing.  what AZ can do is attack the crime problem, and in that state it is extensive. 

it is unfortunate that Mexico has the problems it has.  that is something they have done to themselves.  they have the resources to be a wealthy country, but many years of corruption have made them a 3rd world cesspool.  that is not our problem.  they do no allow us to cross the border and stay.  they have pretty strict immigration laws.
Logged

.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
luvin honey
Super Bee
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 1540

Location: Central WI


« Reply #106 on: May 06, 2010, 07:31:06 PM »

there is hope for you if you are surrounded by conservatives.  very rarely does a conservative become a liberal, but very often a liberal becomes a conservative.  eventually, we mature, and the fantasy of liberalism gives way to the reality of life.
Yep, I've heard that one also. Course, it makes me wonder why there are still so many older liberals. And, honestly, I rarely hear very intelligent, persuasive conservative arguments. I do make a point of continuing to try to have conversation, though, because sometimes I actually come to understand where the other person is coming from. Plus, these are people I love Smiley I just expect the same effort and respect back. And I guess it's why I joined this thread at all. To make the point that gun owners need to be a little more intelligent (unlike the one who posted this sign) if they want to be taken seriously and are worried about liberal lawmakers taking away their rights.

As for this "us" versus "them" attitude, I guess I brought that on myself by announcing myself as a liberal. Talk about painting a target on my chest! Really, though, I think humans all basically want the same things: Food, shelter, clothing, the freedom to do what they love most in life. We just disagree what those specific things are and how we should get there.
Logged

The pedigree of honey
Does not concern the bee;
A clover, any time, to him
Is aristocracy.
---Emily Dickinson
luvin honey
Super Bee
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 1540

Location: Central WI


« Reply #107 on: May 06, 2010, 07:34:33 PM »

Quote
from what I have heard, is that it would lead to profiling of law-abiding citizens. My secondary concern is that it is tackling the symptoms of a problem instead of getting to the cause.
it is unfortunate that Mexico has the problems it has.  that is something they have done to themselves.  they have the resources to be a wealthy country, but many years of corruption have made them a 3rd world cesspool.  that is not our problem.  they do no allow us to cross the border and stay.  they have pretty strict immigration laws.
Now I can compliment you on your sense of humor Smiley Who, exactly, is trying to get into Mexico? And I'm pretty sure Mexican farmers, for one, would have a different opinion on our (U.S.A.) role in their lives. Our crop supports here and our trade agreements with them pretty much wiped out corn farming in Mexico. That is just one example. Oops. I guess we just created one reason for their citizens to want to live here.

As for corruption, I've heard it's bad there. Course, we have a few corruption issues here in America also. In fact, some of them have contributed to our own economic downturn. Surely hoping I never need to get food for my family from Canada...
Logged

The pedigree of honey
Does not concern the bee;
A clover, any time, to him
Is aristocracy.
---Emily Dickinson
Jerrymac
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 6047


Location: Wolfforth Texas


« Reply #108 on: May 06, 2010, 07:37:10 PM »

If they were looking for bank robbers of middle age, blond, blue eyed male, about five and a half to six feet tall, I imagine I would be checked out, several times until the real suspects are captured.

If middle easterners are blowing things up, then check them out. If under educated country boys are shooting up restaurants, then check them out. If Hispanic looking people are crossing the border illegally then check them out.

There is always some form of profiling going on. There has to be. It helps reduce the number of suspects. I do know of a white guy that was here illegally and constantly worried about being deported. I think he finally went back to Mexico. They are not just one skin color down there either.
Logged

rainbow sunflower  Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.   rainbow sunflower

 Jerry

My pictures.Type in password;  youview
     http://photobucket.com/albums/v225/Jerry-mac/
luvin honey
Super Bee
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 1540

Location: Central WI


« Reply #109 on: May 06, 2010, 07:39:06 PM »

Jerrymac--Would you be cool with having to carry proof of citizenship with you at all times?
Logged

The pedigree of honey
Does not concern the bee;
A clover, any time, to him
Is aristocracy.
---Emily Dickinson
iddee
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 5903

Location: Randleman, NC


« Reply #110 on: May 06, 2010, 07:44:03 PM »

I'm at a loss. How can a US citizen tell about how much worse it is in Mexico, then in the next sentence, suggest we allow them to freely come here and change our country to the way theirs' is. I just do not understand.
Logged

"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*
iddee
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 5903

Location: Randleman, NC


« Reply #111 on: May 06, 2010, 07:47:16 PM »

I'm not Jerrymac, but yes, I would. It has always been the law that if you aren't carrying ID, you go to jail until you can prove who you are.

My ID in my wallet at all times consists of my Drivers' license, my SS card, my DD-214, my CC permit, and my VA medical card. At least two, maybe more of those, prove my legality.
Logged

"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*
luvin honey
Super Bee
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 1540

Location: Central WI


« Reply #112 on: May 06, 2010, 07:48:16 PM »

I'm at a loss. How can a US citizen tell about how much worse it is in Mexico, then in the next sentence, suggest we allow them to freely come here and change our country to the way theirs' is. I just do not understand.
Huh? If you're referring to something I said, I guess you have lost me. I didn't read a single thing in this thread (wrong thread, oops) about allowing free entry of all immigrants or changing our country's way of life to another's.... Huh
Logged

The pedigree of honey
Does not concern the bee;
A clover, any time, to him
Is aristocracy.
---Emily Dickinson
luvin honey
Super Bee
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 1540

Location: Central WI


« Reply #113 on: May 06, 2010, 07:49:19 PM »

I'm not Jerrymac, but yes, I would. It has always been the law that if you aren't carrying ID, you go to jail until you can prove who you are.

My ID in my wallet at all times consists of my Drivers' license, my SS card, my DD-214, my CC permit, and my VA medical card. At least two, maybe more of those, prove my legality.
That's strange. I have been pulled over several times in my younger years without my driver's license. I was not sent to jail.
Logged

The pedigree of honey
Does not concern the bee;
A clover, any time, to him
Is aristocracy.
---Emily Dickinson
iddee
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 5903

Location: Randleman, NC


« Reply #114 on: May 06, 2010, 07:53:37 PM »

If you don't agree with checking the ID of a Mexican speaking, mexican looking, person within a few miles of the border, then you do advocate free entry. There's no other way to explain it.

If you think the only ones crossing illegally are the poor, downtrodden honest, hard workers, someone needs to pinch you and wake you up. You are dreaming. There is not ONE of the ones crossing without proper papers that are law-abiding citizens. They are EVERY ONE lawbreakers.
Logged

"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*
luvin honey
Super Bee
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 1540

Location: Central WI


« Reply #115 on: May 06, 2010, 07:54:34 PM »

Maybe we should take this conversation over to the proper thread.
Logged

The pedigree of honey
Does not concern the bee;
A clover, any time, to him
Is aristocracy.
---Emily Dickinson
iddee
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 5903

Location: Randleman, NC


« Reply #116 on: May 06, 2010, 07:55:30 PM »

If you were pulled over without any form of ID, and weren't held until you proved who you were, the officer was incompetent and should have been fired.
Logged

"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*
iddee
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 5903

Location: Randleman, NC


« Reply #117 on: May 06, 2010, 07:56:19 PM »

Maybe we will never agree, so should just let it die.
Logged

"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*
iddee
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 5903

Location: Randleman, NC


« Reply #118 on: May 06, 2010, 07:57:25 PM »

My tagline prayer has been answered. I am gone.
Logged

"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*
luvin honey
Super Bee
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 1540

Location: Central WI


« Reply #119 on: May 06, 2010, 07:58:27 PM »

Maybe we will never agree, so should just let it die.
Quite likely. My life experience has given me good feelings towards the immigrants in my area, legal or not. Could be that having a Colombian niece and nephew whom I adore makes me a little sensitive about racial profiling.
Logged

The pedigree of honey
Does not concern the bee;
A clover, any time, to him
Is aristocracy.
---Emily Dickinson
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 [6] 7   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Beemaster's Beekeeping Ring
Previous | Home | Join | Random | Next
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines | Sitemap Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.506 seconds with 22 queries.

Google visited last this page July 12, 2014, 09:37:04 AM
anything