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Author Topic: Gun Ban Sign  (Read 11394 times)
bluegrass
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« Reply #40 on: April 29, 2010, 06:42:29 AM »

Okay I am not getting into the argument, but as a "Lefty" Gun Owner I have some food for thought.

There is only one State in this great country that has absolutely no State gun laws. That state is the very Liberal New England state of Vermont. The state with the most restrictive gun laws I think we will all agree is California? Liberal state right? Wrong... Look at their voting record prior to the 1990s when most of their gun regulations were passed. http://www.270towin.com/states/California

The gun control issue is not a Left vs Right issue, it is not a Liberal vs Conservative issue. It is an American Issue that politicians like to use a political leverage in an election year. We will continue to loose our second amendment rights in this country as long as the politics are lowed to divide us along party lines.
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checotah
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« Reply #41 on: April 29, 2010, 07:36:38 AM »

Hmm interesting bunch here for sure.  Lots of feelings about a fictional sign.  I like it the passion.  Guns are a tool and no matter what is said the gun can will only kill when the handler pulls the trigger or miss handles the firearm.  I carry a pistol on duty and off and if you have one at home for you protection good for you.  Learn to use it and store it properly and call me to come clean up the mess if some one breaks into you home and threatens your family.
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iddee
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« Reply #42 on: April 29, 2010, 08:47:12 AM »

An example of how well gun control works.

http://www.aolnews.com/world/article/man-stabs-28-children-at-kindergarten-in-china/19458372

Killers will kill. They don't need guns.
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bluegrass
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« Reply #43 on: April 29, 2010, 09:28:11 AM »

 I think that Gun Control Laws do exactly what they are designed to do. They scare people and drive the prices up lining the pockets of politicians with money from gun lobby groups. As an example look at the assault weapons ban. What did it really ban? Nothing; I could still walk into any gun shop and buy a Colt Bushmaster, AK-47, SKS or any number of military style semi-automatics.

What it did do is make the value of "pre-ban" assault weapons go up. It made post ban weapons worth more because everybody thought the government was taking away our guns. It did ban the Tec 9, but the AB-10 was introduced as a legal version, It banned the AR-15, but colt removed the bayonet lug and renamed it the XM-15 and started selling that to the public completely legally.

We have a local gun shop that advertises that they specialize in "Pre-Ban" assault weapons. Of course they do seeing as the ban expired 6 years ago. It is just a marketing ploy, nothing more.     
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kathyp
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« Reply #44 on: April 29, 2010, 09:33:58 AM »

bluegrass, i don't think CA has the most restrictive gun laws.  i think you'd be looking at NY or DC.  i lived in CA for years and had guns.  

if you look at CA gun laws, they have become more restrictive as the state has gone left.  the current batch...no lead, registered ammo, etc. are probably the worst.

gun control is a liberal issue.  there are democrats that are in favor of individual right to bear arms, but not many liberals.

those dems who value their bill of rights might want to consider their vote more carefully.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #45 on: April 29, 2010, 12:47:00 PM »


VERY STRONG LANGUAGE

Penn & Teller: Second Amendment Rights Explained


...STRONG LANGUAGE

Best clarification of the 2nd Amdt I've ever seen.
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bluegrass
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« Reply #46 on: April 29, 2010, 01:12:16 PM »

 Kathy:
The Brady campaign rates CA as the number one best state on gun control... That is all the information I need to know to rank CA as number one in my book. New York isn't even in their top 5.

I am not a Democrat; I am a Liberal. As long as people like you refuse to realize that we need to join forces to keep our rights from being eroded the corrosion will continue.

FYI: Brady endorsed Obama for President, but now rate him lower then the rated George W Bush. Bush had a better rating because he publicly stated that he would  sign the AWB if it crossed his desk.
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kathyp
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« Reply #47 on: April 29, 2010, 01:21:25 PM »

it would be nice to know the Brady Bunch parameters for their rating.

that aside, i agree that we need to stick together to protect our rights.  my point is that as a liberal, and i have to assume you vote that way, you are supporting the very people who would erode those rights.  liberalism and constitutional rights don't go together.

i would rather have heard you were a democrat than a liberal  smiley
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
bluegrass
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« Reply #48 on: April 29, 2010, 02:18:25 PM »

Sorry; having lived in 9 states and an unknown number of voting districts I have never been registered as a Democrat. I pride myself in being able to see through the rhetoric of an election season and when it comes right down to the nitty gritty there are very few differences between Democrats and Republicans. I can vote just as easily for one as the other and I have seen members of both sides whom I would never vote for in a 1000 years.
 

a recent example of the few difference is this Health Care over haul. The talking heads like to try and make it out like there are no Republican Ideas in this thing...bla,bla,bla. That smoke screen can easily be seen through just by sitting down with a copy of the Massachusetts Universal Healthcare and our new national bill and compare them side by side... They are strikingly similar and the Mass plan was a Republican drafted plan signed by a Republican Governor none other than Mitt Romney. One key difference is that the Mass plan does cover abortion services.

Truth be told I voted for Bush in 2000. That was a huge mistake. Voted against him in 2004. Was supporting McCain for president in 2008, but Palin was a big mistake grin. I am currently quite happy with my vote for Obama and looking at the Republican playing field for 2012 I think Obama will get a second term.

There is a saying: Liberals treat dogs like people, Conservatives treat people like dogs. I find a lot of truth in that statement.

Now back on the gun control issue: Democrats have controlled congress for the last 4 years and not a single gun control bill has been passed. The Federal Government has not passed a gun control law in about 16 years. Most of our gun laws are local and most gun owners completely over look that fact.



 
« Last Edit: April 29, 2010, 02:42:05 PM by bluegrass » Logged

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« Reply #49 on: April 29, 2010, 02:41:20 PM »

Yeah, there are too many neo-libs in the Repub party. You were doing so well until you voted for the usurper Obama(lamadingdong). Republicans may treat people like dogs - but in my experience Liberals would rather treat them as cattle or sheep.
I like to think of myself as Conservative - but every political test I take keeps coming back as a fairly centered Libertarian.
There was no "Health Care" overhaul - there was only an Insurance "overhaul" - so that the Gov could skim a cut out of the more lucrative pie. From our pockets.

Quote
The Federal Government has not passed a gun control law in about 16 years.
And it cost a lot of politicians their jobs then too. At least they got PART of the message and haven't tried it again. But they haven't repealed any either. Had SCOTUS decided Miranda before Miller - Miller MIGHT have had a defense present at that decision and would have HAD to have been decided differently - since the missing "evidence" cited in that case was readily available and the only reason it was not presented was because there was no defense present to do so.
In which case there would have never been a GCA in '68.

Hopefully we will see another victory (like Heller v DC) in SCOTUS when they decide McDonald v Chicago and many of the local restrictions will start to fall as well.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2010, 02:57:09 PM by Vibe » Logged

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kathyp
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« Reply #50 on: April 29, 2010, 03:22:47 PM »

when a state does something stupid like the MA health care reform, it impacts a small number of people.  when the feds do the same, it impacts the entire country.  if anyone had spent any time looking at the MA program and it's problems, they would not have tried to copy any part of it.....except....this government wants to destroy the private insurance industry because their goal is single payer (government) health care.

as for gun control, you should spend some time looking at how many time bills are presented to control guns, ammo, and registration.  even though those bill rarely go anywhere, you can read the intent, and see who has put them forward.

you can also read the writings of various obama people and what they would like to do with gun control.  it's all out there.  if your guns were important to you, you didn't do your homework.

mccain is an idiot and the best move he made was putting palin on the ticket.  even though mccain is an idiot, i fail to see how one could go from supporting him to supporting obama, unless you believed all that he said during his campaign.  if you did, again, you did not do your homework on the man.

forgot the add:  the UN small arms treaty which this admin supports.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2010, 03:34:03 PM by kathyp » Logged

.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
bluegrass
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« Reply #51 on: April 29, 2010, 04:25:08 PM »

I am well aware of the laws that are drafted every year and don't go anywhere, there are dozens if not 100s drafted just like HR-45 was and went nowhere.

Those bills are political favors for campaign support usually. When they are single author drafted with no co-authors it is a waste of time and energy to even worry about them. They will never make it for a vote. NRA loves them because they can use them to scare members into sending them money to "protect their rights". You gotta be able to separate the hoopla from reality. It is all about money.

I was pretty sure that Palin was the idiot on that ticket. She completely lacks character. I have a lot of respect for McCain and while I will agree that he is a lot different from Obama he is one of the most Bipartisan politicians in Washington and the sooner this country gets back to bipartisan co-operation the better off we all will be.

I am a health care provider as is my wife. This legislation is not perfect, but something drastic had to be done or the system we have would go bankrupt and nobody would have health care. 
The Massachusetts health care bill is very popular in the state and Mass has the lowest uninsured rate in the country. I would call that a success.
http://healthcarereform.nejm.org/?p=2133
http://www.boston.com/news/health/articles/2009/09/28/support_for_mass_health_insurance_overhaul_drops_but_is_still_strong/   

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« Reply #52 on: April 29, 2010, 04:34:21 PM »

Having always been pro-gun (reinforced by an incedent in which I frightened an irrational spaz away from my sister with a bigger gun [no ammo HAHA] - he wanted to shoot her cat but was threatening her as well)
and the P&T video I posted making the 2nd Amdt crystal clear; I think gun rights are absolute - with concession that felons and crazy people have no business being armed - all other ownership restrictions violate the constitution.
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Vibe
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« Reply #53 on: April 29, 2010, 04:41:09 PM »

I think gun rights are absolute - with concession that felons and crazy people have no business being armed - all other ownership restrictions violate the constitution.
Mostly I agree. With a few possible exceptions.
Crazy? As defined by whom?
Felon? Violent, most likely I agree. But with the way the "crazy" lawmakers are trying to make us ALL "felons" in one way or another....maybe not.
As it is any trumped up charge of Domestic Violence is enough...With or without any evidence, much less requiring a conviction. And that is generally a misdemeanor.
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kathyp
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« Reply #54 on: April 29, 2010, 04:58:51 PM »

bluegrass, i am afraid you and i will have to agree to disagree.  we approach things from a totally different point of view. 
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #55 on: April 29, 2010, 05:05:11 PM »

you make very good points vibe, but generally I would stand behind keeping guns away from felons and crazies.  (more so where a propensity for unwarranted violence is pretty much a no-brainer)
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« Reply #56 on: April 29, 2010, 06:09:30 PM »

Ever smacked a mail box with a pop bottle or a base ball bat? You're a felon.
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« Reply #57 on: April 29, 2010, 07:18:46 PM »

Never, I was more of a donuts in the flowerbed with a dirtbike type.
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« Reply #58 on: April 29, 2010, 07:54:11 PM »

if you do it as a child, you might be forgiven.  if you do it as an adult you should be charged with felony stupid.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #59 on: April 29, 2010, 09:41:53 PM »

 Undecided how about the day before yesterday?
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