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Author Topic: An Open Letter  (Read 1103 times)
wd
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« on: April 19, 2010, 02:20:35 PM »


An Open Letter of Reconciliation and Responsibility to the Iraqi People by Josh Stieber

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« Reply #1 on: April 19, 2010, 02:51:05 PM »

I saw the video and I think it's awfully propagandist for them to have called it at one time a "hit" and another time "murder".
My question is "why were a bunch of unarmed civilians piled up right where a man was spotted with an RPG launcher? - did they not see the men with AK 47s walking down the street moments before? (if they were purses they looked remarkably like a slung folding stock AK)."
I do think it was a tragedy and a terrible terrible mistake, but the use of the word "hit" or "murder" indicates that they intentionally  killed innocents, "hit" is an even more ominous word, meaning that they were looking for exactly them to kill armed or not.
I honestly don't know the word for mistaking civilians for combatants; which I sincerely think is what happened in this instance.
I do believe that if they are going to open a mini gun on people from 300yds or more away they need much much better optics for identifying what they are shooting at.

I suspect that they were watching the actual combatants, who had apparently chased the helicopter around the corner, unaware that the 'copter was sneaking around in a 270*. Following guys with guns and rockets to see how they do against guys with bigger guns and helicopters - is stupid.
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« Reply #2 on: April 19, 2010, 03:05:39 PM »

I think civilians that group around combatants that are out of uniform and hiding them from our soldiers, in order to set up an ambush, should be shot down to clear the firing range to the ambushing combatants.

Good going, soldiers. I hope Micheal Moore, and other traitors, are in the next group.
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« Reply #3 on: April 19, 2010, 04:01:15 PM »

It is tragic that unarmed people were killed, but they were with a couple of armed guys.  When the one guy looked around the corner of the building, He looked like he was going to fire in the helicopter.  You can not take chances with those guys.   It is there duty to kill you, and if they are not wearing uniforms, just how can you defend yourself?

What would these people say if they had video of the Allies trying to drop bombs over Germany 50 years ago?   You can only do so much.
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kathyp
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« Reply #4 on: April 19, 2010, 04:30:09 PM »

in urban warfare, you are with us or against us.  if you are hanging with the bad guys, it's pretty safe to assume you are against us.  that, in my book,  makes you a fair target.  you would think that our war planners would have learned that by now. 
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #5 on: April 19, 2010, 06:14:23 PM »

Same problem existed in Nam.... "civilians" were so often un-uniformed soldiers that it was nearly impossible to tell who the players were. Most of the terrorist hits were by innocent-looking kids carrying grenades and small arms into places that adults couldn't go. At the end of the day, it's either boots on the ground or boots in the ground....I'd like our guys to be the boots on the ground.
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« Reply #6 on: April 19, 2010, 06:19:06 PM »

Maybe Micheal Moore will go over there (ya, that's likely) and make his next hate movie.  He would be a nice target for both sides.
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Keith13
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« Reply #7 on: April 27, 2010, 08:13:56 AM »

I only saw the angle from the one Apache. But the pilots lost PID on the guy with the gun when they circled behind the building. there was no RPG that i saw what  the other pilot in Apache 2 saw i don't know. Was this a good shoot its on the border. at the time of this engagement the ROE was a lot more clear engage the target if weapons are visible. The pilots made the correct choice. Its a shame the civilians were killed but unfortunately collateral damage occurs in war. The important thing to remember is at the end of the day all US forces were able to RTB.

Keith
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« Reply #8 on: April 27, 2010, 09:29:02 AM »

there ya go   grin
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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