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Author Topic: OB hive dead/abandoned brood ?  (Read 1179 times)
kathyp
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« on: April 04, 2010, 11:46:36 AM »

the OB hive has been booming.  this week, a problem?

1. uncapping about 1/5 mature brood.

2. abandoned brood at early stages of development.

3.  unrelated?  long streaks of diarrhea inside hive.  bad weather has limited flying, but i have not seen this before.

hive appears healthy.  capped brood looks normal although it appears that there are some caps with holes.  i had assumed in preparation for removal of brood?

open brood looks healthy.  even abandoned brood looks white, if a bit dried out.  did see a few black specks, but can not see well enough to tell if it's anything important.  does not look like mites.

untreated hive from a swarm last year.  good laying pattern. 
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
JP
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« Reply #1 on: April 04, 2010, 12:53:25 PM »

I've seen bees remove larvae and replace with new larvae. The older capped brood cappings deemed ok by the bees were darker, newer ones had lighter colored cappings.

Bees were constantly trying to supercede the queens. We suspected a combination of lack of feed, possibly para foul brood, poor genetics and perhaps a pesticide impact.

Bees were given an antibiotic and seem to be doing better, but a definite verdict is not in yet.

It does sound like something is amiss with your OB hive. What about chill brood?


...JP
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kathyp
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« Reply #2 on: April 04, 2010, 12:57:02 PM »

not chill brood.  even i don't keep my house that cold   grin

one thing though....most of this brood is on the outside of the brood nest.  it would have been laid and fed when the weather changed.  at that time, the bees ran out of the pollen they had collected and had only the syrup i was feeding. 

poor nutrition is sure in the running.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
kathyp
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« Reply #3 on: April 05, 2010, 11:44:22 AM »

i think the mystery is solved.  looks like some chalkbrood.  just never got to watch the evolution from the inside  smiley
poor nutrition might still be a contributing factor.....
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
JP
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I like doing cut-outs, but I love catching swarms!


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« Reply #4 on: April 05, 2010, 12:41:25 PM »

So what you gonna do Kathy? Good luck!


...JP
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"Good friends are as sweet as honey" Winne the Pooh

My pictures can be viewed at http://picasaweb.google.com/pyxicephalus
and
http://picasaweb.google.com/112138792165178452970

My Youtube videos can be viewed here: http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=JPthebeeman&aq=f

My website JPthebeeman.com http://www.jpthebeeman.com/jpthebeeman/
specialkayme
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« Reply #5 on: April 05, 2010, 10:39:26 PM »

1. uncapping about 1/5 mature brood.
I've seen normal colonies do this. If they think something is wrong, they ditch the brood. Especially hygienic bees. Since they are from a swarm, who knows. Not enough to be alarmed, in and of itself.

2. abandoned brood at early stages of development.

3.  long streaks of diarrhea inside hive.
even abandoned brood looks white, if a bit dried out.

does not look like mites.

not chill brood.....most of this brood is on the outside of the brood nest.... the bees ran out of the pollen they had collected and had only the syrup i was feeding. 

poor nutrition is sure in the running.

After reading this, especially the diarrhea, dried out brood on the outside of the brood nest, and the fact that they ran out of pollen, sounds like you have a nutritional problem. If you over fed them on syrup, they could have diarrhea from that. No pollen and too much syrup could mean the brood doesn't get fed. They will feed on the inside of the broodnest first, then move out. On the outside of the broodnest, if there isn't enough food, they will let them starve. If they starve, they will take them out.

It sounds pure nutritional, at least to me. 
i think the mystery is solved.  looks like some chalkbrood.

Some chalkbrood doesn't seem to match your symptoms. It might be a contributing factor, but that doesn't explain the diarrhea, or the lack of pollen. But I don't know, I'm not seeing it with my own eyes.

What makes you think it is 100% chalkbrood, and not a nutritional element?

Not questioning your judgment, just when I read the fact pattern I came to a different conclusion. I could be wrong Smiley
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kathyp
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« Reply #6 on: April 06, 2010, 12:06:44 AM »

could be more than one thing.  chalkbrood is very common here so it's not a surprise.  bad weather could contribute to poor nutrition.  we had very good weather, queen laid lots and then the weather changed. 


probably more than one thing going on, but the majority of the brood problem looks like chalkbrood.

what am i going to do?  observe  smiley
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #7 on: April 06, 2010, 10:27:59 AM »

Perhaps you can put a frame of fresh pollen and honey from another hive. If they dwindle to too small of a mass it may be best to refresh the whole hive when the season provides an extra frame of bees and brood. Till then turn them lose so that they can join another hive. Just a thought.

I just lost mine because I went away on vacation and they got a bit too cold. A handful survived but no queen.
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kathyp
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« Reply #8 on: April 06, 2010, 11:54:01 AM »

since they are in the house and the OB hive is heavy, i will probably just see what happens.  the queen is a prolific layer and has a great pattern.  if the problem gets no worse the hive will still build up fine.

it is very educational to be able to watch what goes on inside the hive.  i recommend a good size observation hive to all!
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
Jack
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« Reply #9 on: April 06, 2010, 01:01:24 PM »

I'll say. It's addictive. I made a simple stack-able four frame medium OB hive. It did help when time to add a frame. Still a bit heavy though. Will definitely start it up again this year and try to be a better host.
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specialkayme
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« Reply #10 on: April 06, 2010, 02:27:09 PM »

could be more than one thing.

Good observation. I didn't want you to put it all on chalkbrood. It seems like more is going on, and I just wanted to make sure you are open to the possibilities.

since they are in the house and the OB hive is heavy, i will probably just see what happens. 

If it's too heavy to move, might I suggest shaking a few nurse bees into a small tupperware container, then shaking them into the entrance? You'll end up losing some nurse bees, but most of them will make it into the hive. Really young nurse bees can't fly either, so if you can get those, even better!

i recommend a good size observation hive to all!

Bingo! I got one four years ago, and I've had one ever since! It's a great educational tool, a good conversation starter for friends that come over, and a neat way to spend a few minutes every morning!

I'll say. It's addictive. I made a simple stack-able four frame medium OB hive.

You got that right! I started with a three frame deep one, kinda cheap, and built a new one that's a three frame deep that works on a big lazy susian, so you can spin it around. I like it alot, but I'm switching to all mediums, so probably next week I'll have to open it up and turn it from a three frame deep to a four frame medium.

The OH was getting crowded anyway, gonna have to do a split.
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Scadsobees
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« Reply #11 on: April 06, 2010, 03:54:25 PM »


The OH was getting crowded anyway, gonna have to do a split.

Split an OH?  Not when you have a perfect opportunity to watch the wonders of swarming!!!
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Rick
specialkayme
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« Reply #12 on: April 06, 2010, 05:55:19 PM »


The OH was getting crowded anyway, gonna have to do a split.

Split an OH?  Not when you have a perfect opportunity to watch the wonders of swarming!!!

That's what I did the last time. Only problem is the OH doesn't hold many bees. When they swarmed, they didn't leave enough bees for the new queen to survive. They eventually absconed. I didn't notice for three days (busy at the time) and wax moths took over the hive. Real nasty.

Watching was fun, but losing the hive wasn't. I'm not interested in doing it again though.
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Scadsobees
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« Reply #13 on: April 06, 2010, 10:13:07 PM »

Good to know, mine has been less than 3 frames up till last year, I have a feeling this is going to be the first year that they will be thinking of swarming, so I'll keep an eye on 'em.
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Rick
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