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Author Topic: Who has found the magic queen?  (Read 1406 times)

Offline rayb

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Who has found the magic queen?
« on: April 04, 2010, 10:32:53 AM »
It seems more and more people are making the decision to avoid all mite treatment and work with resistant stock, frequent comb replacement and natural comb.

Has anyone had reasonable experiences with resistant queens and what are the sources?

Thanks, Ray


Offline bailey

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Re: Who has found the magic queen?
« Reply #1 on: April 04, 2010, 10:42:26 AM »
go find your local wild bees.
there are your resistant queens right there.

the wild bees that are left are resistant, if not they would have died.
bailey.
most often i find my greatest source of stress to be OPS  ( other peoples stupidity )

It is better to keep ones mouth shut and be thought of as a fool than to open ones mouth and in so doing remove all doubt.

Offline JP

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Re: Who has found the magic queen?
« Reply #2 on: April 04, 2010, 10:50:37 AM »
Bailey and I use what bees we catch and remove from cut outs. Most of these are feral bees that are adapted to our area.

Our swarms are prone to be quite magical. Last yr I housed a swarm that built into one deep and three mediums in six weeks. I was able to pull an entire super from them in that time frame.

I went into winter with 36 hives and came out with 31. Treatment free.


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Offline Robo

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Re: Who has found the magic queen?
« Reply #3 on: April 04, 2010, 11:13:43 AM »
Local survivor stock here too.  ~5 years without any chemicals.   One word of advice.   Don't consider swarms as survivors, they could be from another beekeeper or commercial pollinator in the area.   I like ferals that have been known to be there at least a year.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2010, 11:55:03 AM by Robo »
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Online deknow

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Re: Who has found the magic queen?
« Reply #4 on: April 04, 2010, 11:25:59 AM »
IMHO, magic queens are like magic beans....

This is not to say that one can't keep bees without chemicals/treatments...this is precisely what we do and write about.

However, I don't know of anyone that was using treatments that was able to simply stop using them by purchasing a new queen.

If you want to keep bees without treatments, you have to stop treating (it's kind of like drinking in this regard).

deknow

Offline kathyp

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Re: Who has found the magic queen?
« Reply #5 on: April 04, 2010, 11:30:58 AM »
what they said.   :-D
.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline BjornBee

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Re: Who has found the magic queen?
« Reply #6 on: April 04, 2010, 11:41:58 AM »
I'll never stop treating my bees.

I may not ever use chemicals.

But going chemical free, requires a certain amount of beekeeper intervention, which I call treatments.

Nobody keeps bees, that could be considered "untreated" or completely void from the effects of beekeeper influence. That may range from the impacts of where you place your bees, the equipment you place them in, etc.

Way too many beekeepers are sold the bill of goods that stopping from the use of chemicals, means completely doing NOTHING for the bees. That is false.

To be chemical free, I have found that a complete IPM approach of the right genetics, and the right management, is required to maintain hive health, have productive hives, etc.

Treatment free is impossible. Chemical free should be your goal. They are two separate issues.
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Offline buzzbee

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Re: Who has found the magic queen?
« Reply #7 on: April 04, 2010, 11:54:29 AM »
I'll never stop treating my bees.

I may not ever use chemicals.

But going chemical free, requires a certain amount of beekeeper intervention, which I call treatments.

Nobody keeps bees, that could be considered "untreated" or completely void from the effects of beekeeper influence. That may range from the impacts of where you place your bees, the equipment you place them in, etc.

Way too many beekeepers are sold the bill of goods that stopping from the use of chemicals, means completely doing NOTHING for the bees. That is false.

To be chemical free, I have found that a complete IPM approach of the right genetics, and the right management, is required to maintain hive health, have productive hives, etc.

Treatment free is impossible. Chemical free should be your goal. They are two separate issues.

Good acclimated stock makes mechanical treatment easier though.Northern breed stock does much better up tyhis way than southern acclimated stock.Robos cutouts would probably be better suited to a PA winter than JP's.

I do agree that most folks don't think mechanical intervention is a treatment,and the difference from that and chemical treatment needs to be differentiated. But as the OPoster asked, a good queen is very helpful.

Offline kathyp

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Re: Who has found the magic queen?
« Reply #8 on: April 04, 2010, 12:32:32 PM »
and be prepared for loss.  you will have to determine how much you can stand to lose before it's not worth it for you.  don't expect to end loss by going treatment free either.  you will still lose hives.

to tell you the truth, it was not really my plan to go (chemical) treatment free.  as i replaced stock with cutouts and swarms from true survivor hives, i found treatment was no longer required.

if nothing else, it saves you time and money!
.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline JP

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Re: Who has found the magic queen?
« Reply #9 on: April 04, 2010, 01:14:52 PM »
I'll never stop treating my bees.

I may not ever use chemicals.

But going chemical free, requires a certain amount of beekeeper intervention, which I call treatments.

Nobody keeps bees, that could be considered "untreated" or completely void from the effects of beekeeper influence. That may range from the impacts of where you place your bees, the equipment you place them in, etc.

Way too many beekeepers are sold the bill of goods that stopping from the use of chemicals, means completely doing NOTHING for the bees. That is false.

To be chemical free, I have found that a complete IPM approach of the right genetics, and the right management, is required to maintain hive health, have productive hives, etc.

Treatment free is impossible. Chemical free should be your goal. They are two separate issues.

Just for the record Mike I am not opposed to doing treatments especially in the case where antibiotics are needed, but I happen to oppose treatment with chemicals for mites, not that I have ever needed to treat for them. And no, I haven't actually used antibiotics in my hives but know others that have.

In their case, something needed to be done as it was difficult to pinpoint exactly what the problem was they were dealing with. Too many variables involved.

Sometimes I believe we do have to step in from time to time.

I do have one hive that has trouble with mites, I have not treated them. They have been surviving three yrs now without treatment.

Lately, I'm thinking of either requeening them or allowing them to make a queen from different stock, because this hive albeit is surviving, they just have not evolved to a super strong colony.

I'd rather do this than treat them with chemicals, my choice.


...JP
"Good friends are as sweet as honey" Winne the Pooh

My pictures can be viewed at http://picasaweb.google.com/pyxicephalus
and
http://picasaweb.google.com/112138792165178452970

My Youtube videos can be viewed here:

My website JPthebeeman.com http://www.jpthebeeman.com/jpthebeeman/

Offline b reeves

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Re: Who has found the magic queen?
« Reply #10 on: April 04, 2010, 07:36:04 PM »
Deknow
After my first year of beekeeping 8 years ago I lost 2 out of three of my hives due to varroa with treatment, I then bought Queens from weaver, at the time the had gone 15? years without chemicals I never used chemicals after that and never lost a hive due to varroa, my management ( which bjornbee calls treatment) consists of natural selection (my fingers), if a hive isn't doing well, I no longer look for the reason I pinch off the queen and they make another, I have full confidence in the bees ability to overcome all that nature throws at them, with or without mans "help"
Bob

Offline Michael Bush

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Re: Who has found the magic queen?
« Reply #11 on: April 04, 2010, 11:18:48 PM »
I don't believe there is a "magic queen" and I don't use any treatments.  Call it what you want.  I don't believe you can get by with no treatments, now that Varroa is here, without letting the bees build their own comb or at least giving them foundation in the 4.9mm range.  But letting them build their own comb is not something I can seem calling a treatment.  How am I "treating" them?
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