Need Bees Removed?
International
Beekeeping Forums
April 17, 2014, 09:15:26 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
News: 24/7 Ventrilo Voice chat -click for instructions and free software here
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar bee removal Login Register Chat  

Pages: 1 [2]  All   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: I'm Tired of all this CCD BS  (Read 3810 times)
homer
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 294

Location: Smithfield, Utah


« Reply #20 on: March 26, 2010, 05:06:20 PM »

They could be spraying pesticides that are bee friendly like they used to! Instead of something that turns the plant into a deadly toxin for 9 months.

It sounds a bit silly to think that there are pesticides that are "bee friendly."  They may be able to tolerate some of them more than others, but certainly there isn't a pesticide out there that is "friendly" to the bees.

Seriously, if there is a lack of study on something that you find important...  get out there and let someone know and maybe something could happen.  I'm sure there are tons of Grad. and PhD. students that need projects and one of them may just take on your idea. 

I don't see a big reason to dwell on something that you can't control.  For now just take care of your own hives and control what YOU force on them and for all the things you can't control... "que sera sera"
Logged
buzzbee
Ken
Administrator
Galactic Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 5219


Location: North Central PA


WWW
« Reply #21 on: March 26, 2010, 06:16:25 PM »

If you aren't finding the corpses I guess you have to look at their environment. just because you haven't found the studies does not mean they are not being done. If you are so tired of it why do you bring it up? I really do not think there is a conspiracy theory going on.
A stated earlier bees don't spend a lot of their time on soy and corn.These are the primary crops for these insecticides.
Logged
Bee Happy
Super Bee
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1654


Location: Between Panama city, Florida and Dothan Al.

that's me - setting a phoenix free


« Reply #22 on: March 26, 2010, 06:51:13 PM »

I had a video until I had to change operating systems  of the bees harvesting the pollen on the corn. It was quite loud with bees, and you couldn't look at a corn tassel without 2 or more bees working it. I don't bother with pesticides myself; but I can confirm that, for whatever their reason, they find corn pollen very appealing.
edit: I guess the question for that is: Do CCD incidents have their highest frequency at the same time frame the plants in question are pollinating the most - or is CCD seasonally random?
Logged

be happy and make others happy.
doak
Super Bee
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1788

Location: Central Ga. 35 miles north of Macon


« Reply #23 on: March 26, 2010, 07:23:33 PM »

Two winters ago I lost 7 out of 12 colonies. There is no corn grown within miles of me. I don't even grow it in my garden. If I did I would plane the old kind.
NEXT,
The article on CBS I pulled up said that 121 pesticides were found in test. Not that it meant all those was found in one colony. There are so many things that float around in the air, I think regardless of where you live you will get some effects. There is not a lot of agriculture around where I live for miles. Just forest land.
Not even half doz. gardens within bee flights. Most of those don't use sprays or powders.

I would expect they would find a lot of things in colonies that are kept in heavy agriculture areas.
Add the medication the beekeeper uses, Which is none for me in the past 2 years.
I was down to 4 colonies last spring. Got back up to 7  during the growing season last year. Now back down to two. I think the ones I lost this past winter was due to hive beetles. Poor management on my part for that.

I am not going to give up. I have two good colonies that are growing and being treated for hive beetles with the non chemical method. I am going to try to get some honey from the Tulip Poplar season then I am going to try to rear some managed queens and make a couple splits.
I do plan on buying one nuke.  Then I'll wait and see what this Fall/winter holds in store for me and my Bees.
If I have to buy a couple nukes next spring I will. :)doak 
Logged
buzzbee
Ken
Administrator
Galactic Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 5219


Location: North Central PA


WWW
« Reply #24 on: March 26, 2010, 10:17:36 PM »

Read from page 9 on. they have looked:
http://maarec.psu.edu/pressReleases/FallDwindleUpdate0107.pdf
Logged
MrILoveTheAnts
Field Bee
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 716


Location: Somerdale, New Jersey


WWW
« Reply #25 on: March 27, 2010, 01:48:55 AM »

It sounds a bit silly to think that there are pesticides that are "bee friendly."  They may be able to tolerate some of them more than others, but certainly there isn't a pesticide out there that is "friendly" to the bees.


By bee friendly I mean they're only sprayed when the crop is not in flower. When a pesticide is active for 9 months the farmer might as well be bathing his plants in the stuff daily for the entire growing season.


Seriously, if there is a lack of study on something that you find important...  get out there and let someone know and maybe something could happen.  I'm sure there are tons of Grad. and PhD. students that need projects and one of them may just take on your idea. 


That was kind of why I posted this, here, on the internet, where people from around the world can read things.


I don't see a big reason to dwell on something that you can't control.  For now just take care of your own hives and control what YOU force on them and for all the things you can't control... "que sera sera"


Once again everyone seems to be missing the point. I'm happy to read in the link provided by BuzzBee that we're making progress but I still don't read what I want to hear. I haven't read it all yet but once again they say they're taking samples from the hive... which is what I've been complaining about this whole time.

I want someone to post here saying YES they understand that neonicotinoides could be the culprit. I seriously question why beekeepers tolerate this class of insecticide if it's active for 9 months or however long. Especially because the scientists seem to think that combined with a fungicide could cause CCD. Why haven't we banned one or the other? Why aren't we boycotting pollination services to farmers who use neonicotinoides? As far as I'm concerned if they're using this they may as well be spraying their crop daily with any other product.

Guttation is very common among plants. It's not just corn doing it. This is the plant pushing out, basically, sugar water that's now tainted with an insecticide.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guttation

At the very least we should be calling for Neonicotinoides to be prohibited from crops that guttat, sweat out liquid. THEN we would be removing one of the key factors in CCD!
Logged

buzzbee
Ken
Administrator
Galactic Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 5219


Location: North Central PA


WWW
« Reply #26 on: March 27, 2010, 06:20:42 AM »

 Neonicatinoids are a factor. Not the only cause.


There are a lot of theories on CCD
Here is yours from March 3,2007:
"
With Colony Collapse Disorder the adult bees can't find their way home. Something is screwing around with their internal compus. Specifically something in the fall time. What are beekeepers doing in the fall? Adding and removing strips to combat mites. And I'm assuming newer formulas are more likely to be bought by commercial bee farmers who seem most effected by this."

Until we are sure what we are after,whether it be chemical,viral,or possibly some natural cause,we can't just say this has to go,that has to go and everything must go.
  Our government ,gee i hate that word anymore, still does not advocate using oxalic acid to combat mites in the beehive.
 Until there are more cost effective ways to treat mites on a commercial basis,of which oxalic is very inexpensive,we will continue to see cumalative effects of chemicals in the hive introduced by the beekeeper themselves.
An underlying cause many time seems to be a previous stress period such as moving,poor diet from a mono crop such as blueberries which is very poor for bee nutrition.Extended bad weather can also bee another colony stress factor when corn syrup and sugar are added.We at this time are keeping bees alive that would most likely have died because of lack of food. Is this perpetuating a bad set of genetics?
 It very well could be. We have tried to ensure survival of even very sick bees over time just to keep the numbers and maybe inadvertently created bees that are in no way equipped for survival without intervention.
Do we as beekeepers keep getting all of our packages and queens from the same place every year? Are we saturating the gene pool with downline s of the same genetics I don't know.It might be a good idea to start raising bees from feral swarms.
  I understand the frustration,which is one reason I try in my beeyard not to be the one adding the lethal final straw.A  lot of people stiil think if a little medicine is good,more is better.Most of the time that is not the case.
There may be fifty causes,so I don't think removing one is going to be the magic pill.
 For the home and smaller beekeepers,I say use the IPM,dust with sugar,screened bottom boards if you wish. But do your best to keep camaphous and fluvalinates out of your hives.These are highest on the list of concentrations and are the ones beekeepers add themselves.Small beekeepers may in the end be the ones with the answer if they are the ones with bees that have survived.
 


Logged
buzzbee
Ken
Administrator
Galactic Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 5219


Location: North Central PA


WWW
« Reply #27 on: March 27, 2010, 06:27:34 AM »

Not to change the subject,but if you didn't know about these the symptom is CCD like:
  "Whatever the cause of Colony Collapse Disorder, European honeybees face a concrete threat from hordes of killer Asian Hornets, which can wipe out a nest of 30,000 bees "in a couple of hours" in search of larvae on which to feed their young."
That was from this article:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/03/02/colony_collapse_disorder/
Logged
homer
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 294

Location: Smithfield, Utah


« Reply #28 on: March 27, 2010, 10:06:54 AM »

Nice research on the old post, Buzzbee!  Touche....
Logged
buzzbee
Ken
Administrator
Galactic Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 5219


Location: North Central PA


WWW
« Reply #29 on: March 27, 2010, 10:44:29 AM »

Nice research on the old post, Buzzbee!  Touche....
It really wasn't meant as a touche,more of a reflection on just how hard it is to pin this problem to one particular thing.
But rest assured,all beekeepers would like to see it resolved this afternoon.
Logged
MrILoveTheAnts
Field Bee
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 716


Location: Somerdale, New Jersey


WWW
« Reply #30 on: March 28, 2010, 07:09:39 PM »

Well in the fall time, along with previously mentioned theories, the bees are desperate for food. Maybe they go for guttation more at that time of year.
Logged

luvin honey
Super Bee
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 1540

Location: Central WI


« Reply #31 on: March 29, 2010, 07:24:53 PM »

Strange. Corn is tasseling and beans flowering when there are boatloads of other things in bloom, at least around here. I haven't ever seen bees on corn or beans (or my sunflowers specially planted for them, for that matter). Also, here in farmland, WI, nothing gets sprayed when in flower. The crops are just too tall by that point. Of course, maybe a special situation here or there would call for plane spraying.

Alfalfa is a different matter. Sad
Logged

The pedigree of honey
Does not concern the bee;
A clover, any time, to him
Is aristocracy.
---Emily Dickinson
doak
Super Bee
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1788

Location: Central Ga. 35 miles north of Macon


« Reply #32 on: March 29, 2010, 07:56:46 PM »

Mr. I Love The Ants.
You wanted to hear it so here it is.
Yes, That could be ( part) of the culprit.
There is also 1 in another 1000 things that could fall into that category.

Don't to be a noid, but it sounds like you want the answer "you" want, whether it is genuine or not. :)doak 
Logged
DavesBees
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 89

Location: US, Maine, Orrington


WWW
« Reply #33 on: May 22, 2010, 08:59:27 AM »

Guttation
This is a most important topic to beekeepers.  This first link tells what guttation is.
Wikipedia  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guttation

Pesticides in guttation water are quite probably the cause of CCD!  Other countries have already suggested it.  Perhaps a better name for CCD would be Constant Chemical Decimation.
Read what your fellow beekeepers in Atlanta posted. 
Metro Atlanta Beekeepers Association   
http://www.metroatlantabeekeepers.org/guttation__new_pesticide_concer.htm

This is a great link as well.
Guttation with Imidacloprid, Clothianidin, and Fipronil
This is a great page with three files to look at on the top right of the page.  The presentation on guttation is very good but one should read all three.
http://www.moraybeekeepers.co.uk/N&Views/imidacloprid.htm

It is time for beekeepers to start doing some research and find some things out for themselves.
Do not drink the "We think it is various pathogens and we have no definitive answer for CCD" Kool-aid.  These people are scientists and they know better but if you want to know why they are using this smoke screen you will have to ask them.

How about another trip to Wikipedia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imidacloprid_effects_on_bee_population

So here is my question.  If we wanted these chemicals tested in the US, who would test?  Who would pay for the research?  And if the results proved the danger of these chemicals, who would go public with the results?


This goes way beyond just the death of bees, but since we are beekeepers this is a good place to start.
Logged

Dave - PM me if you are interseted in natural beekeeping in Hancock County Maine.
http://www.davesbees.com
Wynoochee_newbee_guy
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 175

Location: Wynoochee Valley Grays Harbor Washington


« Reply #34 on: May 22, 2010, 05:36:34 PM »

lets look at this from another view. If we look at GMO's like corn soybeans and Canola or rape seed. all of them are genetic modified. with Pesticides in them each and every cell of the corn plant soy plant and Canola is modifide to have a pesticides in it. from root to grain or seed  or bean. its there. whats the cheapest way people out side of the hobbist beek can feed their bees? side liner and up? with HFCS. even when the corn is procesed the pestisides stay in the food product so the bees eat HFCS injest pestisides. they are stressed out from moving mites and what not. they take a swig of HFCS and die. if we stop feeding HFCS. and the bees might bee better.
Logged

Its All Fun And Games Till I lose an EYE!
kathyp
Universal Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 14807


Location: boring, oregon


« Reply #35 on: May 22, 2010, 06:09:11 PM »

the problem with all of these nice theories is that they treat CCD as if it were a new thing.  it is not.  it is more likely to me that CCD is a combination of things.  stress, compromised immune system, exposure to ?.......maybe many things.  look at AIDS as a for instance; no one dies from AIDS.  they die from one or more disease that get a foothold because the immune system is trashed.

what stresses the bees?  dragging them around the country?  what we feed, expose them to, treat them with?  no one knows.  since reports of CCD like occurrences predate many of the things currently blamed for CCD, it is likely more than one thing going on.
Logged

.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
luvin honey
Super Bee
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 1540

Location: Central WI


« Reply #36 on: May 22, 2010, 08:10:18 PM »

It seems that research is about where many beekeepers thoughts were at least two or three years ago. That it is the combination of chemicals, probably with suppressed immune systems, poor nutrition, that allow other diseases and a complete crash of the bees immune system and resulting CCD.
This makes a lot of sense to me. Seems like most problems in life have many contributors, not just one.
Logged

The pedigree of honey
Does not concern the bee;
A clover, any time, to him
Is aristocracy.
---Emily Dickinson
luvin honey
Super Bee
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 1540

Location: Central WI


« Reply #37 on: May 22, 2010, 08:14:52 PM »

Why aren't we boycotting pollination services to farmers who use neonicotinoides?
That's a great idea! While it may be difficult to change federal or corporate policy, this is a place beekeepers could make a stand. Of course, they would have to be willing to possibly lose pollination $. It would be a way to make beek voices heard.

My local poison sprayer is my husband, so he knows he's gonna get it if he does anything to harm my bees. In fact, could be they're on to him and the reason he keeps getting dive bombed by them while I am tolerated Cheesy
Logged

The pedigree of honey
Does not concern the bee;
A clover, any time, to him
Is aristocracy.
---Emily Dickinson
TheMasonicHive
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 207


Location: Oxford, MI


« Reply #38 on: May 22, 2010, 08:17:52 PM »

Shouldn't this discussion be moved to the CCD Forum?
Logged

Christopher Peace
Oakland County, MI

"It teaches us that, as we come into the world rational and intelligent beings, so we should ever be industrious ones; never sitting down contented while our fellow-creatures around us are in want, when it is in our power to relieve them without inconvenience to ourselves." - Freemasonry on the Beehive
bigbearomaha
Guest
« Reply #39 on: May 22, 2010, 08:30:53 PM »

University of Nebraska

This site shows some of the work the UN is doing with Dr. Marion Ellis to study the impact of certain chemicals on bees.

Thought some might find it interesting.

Big Bear
Logged
Pages: 1 [2]  All   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Beemaster's Beekeeping Ring
Previous | Home | Join | Random | Next
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines | Sitemap Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.431 seconds with 21 queries.

Google visited last this page January 07, 2014, 06:39:31 AM