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Author Topic: Healthcare Passes!!!  (Read 6151 times)
Bee Happy
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« Reply #20 on: March 22, 2010, 08:44:03 PM »

Hardwood, are you saying this was on private property?
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be happy and make others happy.
harvey
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« Reply #21 on: March 22, 2010, 10:01:49 PM »

KathyP    I am obsessed with your picture,    Very alluring!
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Scadsobees
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« Reply #22 on: March 22, 2010, 10:22:39 PM »

If I could opt out of social security, beleive me, I would.  But I can't, and after pouring probably hundreds of thousands of dollars into it, yes, when I retire, I'll be trying my hardest to get that money back out.  Not that I have much hope at this point.
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Rick
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« Reply #23 on: March 23, 2010, 12:38:54 AM »

If I could opt out of social security, beleive me, I would.  But I can't, and after pouring probably hundreds of thousands of dollars into it, yes, when I retire, I'll be trying my hardest to get that money back out.  Not that I have much hope at this point.

hahaha you think you don't have much hope i'm 28 everything i've paid in i'm doomed to not seeing a dime of.  Always loved paying for something that i never had any faith in or ever planned on getting a dime out of.  It seems like every dang government program is like a ponzi scheme.  It works only if the population grows and people can keep their greedy hands out of the cash.
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cidersabuzzin
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« Reply #24 on: March 23, 2010, 04:34:23 AM »


england started their social welfare system in the early 1900's.  now it's fully implemented and the people don't bother to vote as long as nothing is threatening their free stuff.  let someone talk about reforming the system and people turn out on the streets.


Is this not the same the world over?

If a person serves in the military for a long time (I completed 10 years) they receive a pension.(I don't)
The Department of Defence pays the pension.
Who funds the Department of Defence?
The Tax payer!
Would you have it that they don't receive their 'just deserves'
Lots of people may have contributed a lot to society but may not end up with a pension, free health care etc, doe's that make them any less a citizen? Wink
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Whats good for bees is usually good for mankind. Doesn't that mean sharing?
The Ladies could still teach the Borg a thing or two!....and maybe us too, so long as we don't go too far to the left or right and fall off the edge...
lakeman
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« Reply #25 on: March 23, 2010, 06:08:10 AM »

If I could opt out of social security, beleive me, I would.  But I can't, and after pouring probably hundreds of thousands of dollars into it, yes, when I retire, I'll be trying my hardest to get that money back out.  Not that I have much hope at this point.

Hey people, I for one am anti government, oh not really anti government, just anti pollitician, I am for a clean house in washington (time for a new revolution), but lets be honest, no one has paid hundreds of thousands into social security, and the biggest problem is most will get much more out than they have paid in.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2010, 06:45:22 AM by lakeman » Logged

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hardwood
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« Reply #26 on: March 23, 2010, 06:28:32 AM »

Yes Bee Happy, that was on private property.

Scott
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"In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person's becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag...We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language...And we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."

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Ken
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« Reply #27 on: March 23, 2010, 06:37:21 AM »

If I could opt out of social security, beleive me, I would.  But I can't, and after pouring probably hundreds of thousands of dollars into it, yes, when I retire, I'll be trying my hardest to get that money back out.  Not that I have much hope at this point.

Hey people, I for one am anti government, oh not really anti government, just anti pollitician, I am for a clean house in washington (time for a new revolution), but lets be honest, no one has pad hundreds of thousands into social security, and the biggest problem is most will get much more out than they have paid in.
15 percent of every paycheck. Not sure if you'll get that good of a return.
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bigbearomaha
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« Reply #28 on: March 23, 2010, 07:28:10 AM »

Un-employment is "insurance"  money is paid into the system with an expectation to have money taken back later.  That's not charity or entitlement.

Social security is paid into.  money is taken from your paycheck, like it or not, with the expectation that later on in life, you will reap from the 'forced' savings account, also not an entitlement or charity.

People are paying a premium and it is turning out to be a false bill of goods.

The government has been dipping into the social security cookie jar for decades with utter disregard for caution.

People will have to have insurance or pay a fee.  What if they don't pay the fee? send them to jail?  raise the cost and need for jails for folks with no insurance?  Ultimately the criminalization of being too poor to pay for insurance.

What then of the un-employed?  They cannot afford insurance,  Shall they all sign up for medicare/aid  Who pays the higher bills to the States for the enlarged rolls there?

This country is already over spent by the trillions and wanting to spend more so that they don't have to cut back and live a little less 'large'.

This is a bad road the government has forced the people onto.

yes I say forced becasue it has been quoted by the President and several 'leading' congresspeople that they meant to pass this regardless of public approval or other political party participation.

The government has failed us.

Big Bear
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c10250
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« Reply #29 on: March 23, 2010, 07:59:58 AM »

People are "forced" to pay into Social Security!

People are "forced" to pay for Unemployment INSURANCE!

People are "forced" to pay into Medicare INSURANCE

Hell, in my State people are "forced" to pay for auto INSURANCE

Now, all of a sudden, it's the end of the world because people have to pay for health insurance? LOL!

I'm sick and tired of my tax dollars going to the unisured showing up at my county hospital.

I have my reasons that I'm against this bill, but believe me, most of your guys reasons sound very hypocritical.

Peace,

Ken
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bigbearomaha
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« Reply #30 on: March 23, 2010, 08:39:25 AM »

The ideal of living in a supposed free country is that people need not be "forced" to do anything.

No one  I know wants to be 'forced' to pay the things that already are, why on earth would thy be happy about being 'forced' to do more?

You may be content with being 'forced' to pay for things, so being 'forced' to pay one more thing doesn't bother you.

For those who don't appreciate being forced at all,  it is not hypocrisy, it is called resistant.

The only thing people should have been 'forced' to pay is taxes.  beyond that, everything else was supposed to be a choice.

so I disagree with you.  People not wanting to be 'forced' into paying for more of this nonsense is not hypocrisy.

Big Bear

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c10250
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« Reply #31 on: March 23, 2010, 09:10:57 AM »


The only thing people should have been 'forced' to pay is taxes. 


Whoa!!!  I disagree with that!!!!

Big Bear, just think of health care as a tax.  All better . . .
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kathyp
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« Reply #32 on: March 23, 2010, 10:18:12 AM »

Quote
Is this not the same the world over?

If a person serves in the military for a long time (I completed 10 years) they receive a pension.(I don't)
The Department of Defense pays the pension.
Who funds the Department of Defence?
The Tax payer!
Would you have it that they don't receive their 'just deserves'
Lots of people may have contributed a lot to society but may not end up with a pension, free health care etc, doe's that make them any less a citizen?


it might be the same the world over, but seeing how that's working out, all the more reason for us not to go down that road.

i don't have a problem with a company paying a pension.  that is a contract you make with that company.  the defense of the country is one of THE VERY FEW things that the constitution mandates the federal government do.

to that end, the government agrees to pay those who spend at least 20 years in nasty living conditions with people occasionally shooting at them, a pension. a pension that they might otherwise have had if they had skipped the military and gone to work for a private company.  yes, it is paid by the tax payer.  so are police and fire pensions, and for the same reasons.  those same people also pay taxes on their income.  

you confuse what someone earns, or contracts for a retirement, with the welfare that is SSI, medicare, and now this health care plan.  a person does not have the right to anything that they do not earn.

we see europe.  we do not want to be europe.

Quote
People are "forced" to pay into Social Security!

People are "forced" to pay for Unemployment INSURANCE!

People are "forced" to pay into Medicare INSURANCE

Hell, in my State people are "forced" to pay for auto INSURANCE

Now, all of a sudden, it's the end of the world because people have to pay for health insurance? LOL!

I'm sick and tired of my tax dollars going to the uninsured showing up at my county hospital.

I have my reasons that I'm against this bill, but believe me, most of your guys reasons sound very hypocritical.

you seem to think that we think these things are good.  they are not.  i would do away with all these programs in a heartbeat.  

it is true that you pay for those who use the ER for primary care.  two points on that.  1. the ER is required to treat them.  2.  it costs a lot less to pay for these people than the cost of this bill.  if the point of the bill was to cover the  uninsured, we will now spend somewhere north of 34k a year per uninsured person to make sure they are covered.  this might make a cynical person wonder what the real point of the bill was?

government has very few responsibilities.  among them, to make sure that those who can not care for themselves are seen to.  society has the responsibility to care for the poor, etc.  when you confuse the responsibilities of society, with the power of the government, very soon you have government and no society.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
c10250
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« Reply #33 on: March 23, 2010, 11:02:29 AM »


you seem to think that we think these things are good.  

Not me . . .

I'm just trying to point out how crazy it is, the guy retired, on Medicare and SS, paying for these insurances all of their life, now going crazy about having to pay for insurance.  LOL!

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cidersabuzzin
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« Reply #34 on: March 23, 2010, 11:36:46 AM »

Quote
Is this not the same the world over?

If a person serves in the military for a long time (I completed 10 years) they receive a pension.(I don't)
The Department of Defense pays the pension.
Who funds the Department of Defence?
The Tax payer!
Would you have it that they don't receive their 'just deserves'
Lots of people may have contributed a lot to society but may not end up with a pension, free health care etc, doe's that make them any less a citizen?



to that end, the government agrees to pay those who spend at least 20 years in nasty living conditions with people occasionally shooting at them, a pension. a pension that they might otherwise have had if they had skipped the military and gone to work for a private company.  yes, it is paid by the tax payer.  so are police and fire pensions, and for the same reasons.  those same people also pay taxes on their income.  

Yes I agree, I spent my last few years in the military being shot at by Noraid funded terrorists in Northen Ireland, I left knowing I would not receive a pension, luckily I receive a very good one from the company I served for 25yrs. as it is I can afford health insurance, but what happens if I had no occupational pension? presumably to the bottom of the pile.
Just look on it as being another sales tax on being a good US citizen. Deep down you know it makes sense! Wink
 
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Whats good for bees is usually good for mankind. Doesn't that mean sharing?
The Ladies could still teach the Borg a thing or two!....and maybe us too, so long as we don't go too far to the left or right and fall off the edge...
CHD
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« Reply #35 on: March 23, 2010, 11:49:28 AM »

Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just Powers from the Consent of the Governed, that whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these Ends, it is the right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government...it is their Right, it is their Duty, to throw off such Government, to provide new Guards for their future Security.

                          Thomas Jefferson,
                            The Declaration of Independence

Obama couldn't get it done with a super majority,
Obama is going to sign a bill into law that hasn't been completed,
Obama is going to push this bill foward without judicial review,
Obama is pushing this legislation through reconciliation, and it is not eligible
Obama is breaking the law.
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Scadsobees
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« Reply #36 on: March 23, 2010, 12:16:54 PM »


I'm just trying to point out how crazy it is, the guy retired, on Medicare and SS, paying for these insurances all of their life, now going crazy about having to pay for insurance.  LOL!


It may be partly that (another FEE not a TAX??? again?!! how stupid are we???) but a big chunk of it is knowing that I'll be paying just as much for insurance and probably more and having the sinking feeling that my great medical care is going to go to the dogs.

Sure, i have to pay for auto insurance.  But when I when I pay my brake bill and present my auto insurance card to my mechanic as payment he'll just laugh.  Auto insurance is insurance, not a medical payment program. Not apples to apples.

I'm just sick and tired of taxes going down but fees going up (phone bill, thank you algore!).

Rick
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Rick
c10250
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« Reply #37 on: March 23, 2010, 01:43:04 PM »


Obama couldn't get it done with a super majority,
Obama is going to sign a bill into law that hasn't been completed,
Obama is going to push this bill foward without judicial review,
Obama is pushing this legislation through reconciliation, and it is not eligible
Obama is breaking the law.


CHD, it's funny, I did a search, and couldn't find you complaining about the SAME process (reconciliation) Bush used to pass the tax cuts (which I was for).  I think your argument would have looked something like:

Bush couldn't get it done with a super majority,
Bush is going to sign a bill into law that hasn't been completed,
Bush is going to push this bill foward without judicial review,
Bush is pushing this legislation through reconciliation, and it is not eligible
Bush is breaking the law.

Educate yourself.  I'm sure you can come up with a better argument that that.  Kathyp has a good argument.  
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Bee Happy
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« Reply #38 on: March 23, 2010, 01:50:41 PM »

Yes Bee Happy, that was on private property.

Scott


If the owner had those campers as guests I can't see any excuse in the world to issue fines. - other than harassment (I think you should press to have the fines refunded.)
EDIT: here's another one, more on topic. (healthcare was signed in 3 days)
Barack Obama "Public Will Have 5 Days To Look At Every Bill That Lands On My Desk"
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kathyp
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« Reply #39 on: March 23, 2010, 02:19:03 PM »

the constitution gives congress the freedom to write their own rules.  when you have statesmen in congress, they understand that process is very important.  the rules are meant to protect process and allow the public to at least feel that things are done with consideration and care.  when you have ideologues in congress they do not care about process or public perception.  they only care about pushing the agenda.

our government has passed many laws and bills over the year that i don't like.  they have done it as they always do, with debate and usually compromise.  regardless of which party is in power, there is  some input from both sides.  sometimes i am disappointed in both sides and the decisions they  make, but i can honestly say that i have never been as angry about what they have done as i am about this bill.

when one party closes the door on the other and writes bill in secret, no one should accept that.  when the president and his congress basically flip the people off and tell them to sit down and shut up, no one should accept that.  

there is something else that the press pretty much ignored.  i do not remember ever seeing a president go to congress and take the members of one party behind closed doors for secret meetings.  multiple times.  while every president will lobby members of congress to pass things that they think are important, this president went far beyond that.  we have separation of powers for a reason.  if we do not change things in november, we will be dancing on the edge of a dictatorial leadership that will feel empowered to do whatever they want, regardless of the will of the people.  we have already seen what this president will do with executive orders, regulatory bodies like the EPA, and czars accountable to no one..... student loans now run by the government and companies TAKEN OVER by the government.  in this county?  

we made a mistake, but it's not fatal if we fix it next year.

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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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