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Author Topic: Walk away splits ?  (Read 5355 times)
Joelel
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« on: March 09, 2010, 07:31:16 PM »

How do you do walk away splits with queen cells or with out ? Do you lock them in when making split ? Do you take them 2 miles away or move the hives around ? Do you try to put only house bees in the splits and as few workers as possable ? How do you do it ?
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Acts2:37: Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38: Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39: For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
40: And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation
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« Reply #1 on: March 09, 2010, 07:52:55 PM »

I plan to move the portion of mine without a queen about 12 miles, but it's because there are some genetics in that area I'd like to make use of, if the drones are up to the task. The half that still has a queen may be moved to the same place next year in case they want to supercede.  (she's  about one year old now - give or take a few weeks).
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« Reply #2 on: March 09, 2010, 10:30:50 PM »

By definition a walk away has no queen cell or new queen.  It's just a split where they will raise their own.

http://www.bushfarms.com/beessplits.htm
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Michael Bush
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Joelel
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« Reply #3 on: March 09, 2010, 11:10:57 PM »

By definition a walk away has no queen cell or new queen.  It's just a split where they will raise their own.

http://www.bushfarms.com/beessplits.htm


Your link don't answer my questions.
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Acts2:37: Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38: Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39: For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
40: And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation
Jack
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« Reply #4 on: March 10, 2010, 12:15:33 AM »

What is it you can't comprehend?
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schawee
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« Reply #5 on: March 10, 2010, 12:25:10 AM »

this is what i do,split the hive in half.make sure you have eggs,young larva in the hive without the queen.they will make their own queen.check back in about 4weeks.
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« Reply #6 on: March 10, 2010, 01:16:40 AM »

Can it be in the same yard or does it need to be moved a few miles?
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« Reply #7 on: March 10, 2010, 03:07:27 AM »

Can it be in the same yard or does it need to be moved a few miles?
same yard.

Best to move the old hive a bit as well so the foragers split between the two.
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Michael Bush
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« Reply #8 on: March 10, 2010, 04:36:37 AM »

>Your link don't answer my questions.

Well, first, I answered your first question:

>How do you do walk away splits with queen cells or with out ?

By definition a walk away has no queen cell or new queen.  It's just a split where they will raise their own.


Then I gave you a link with an in depth treatment of the subject that covers every other question you asked and many you didn't.  But if you missed them I will elaborate here.

> Do you lock them in when making split ?

I do not.  It is one method that some people use, but it tends to be too hot and they tend to overheat and shaking in a few extra bees does better with less stress.  Another method is to face both new halves toward the old location so they will tend to be more evenly divided.

> Do you take them 2 miles away or move the hives around ?

I never have.  Some people do.

> Do you try to put only house bees in the splits and as few workers as possable ?

You want nurse bees in the new location so they won't  drift.

> How do you do it ?

Any bees on brood comb tend to be nurse bees and tend to stay where you put them.
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Michael Bush
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« Reply #9 on: March 10, 2010, 10:23:23 AM »

names of splits aside, it is basically also what you can do when your hive is going to swarm, get the queen out, but also make use of those extra swarm cells in a hive, use them to make up other splits.

If you make sure that you have enough bees in the split you can leave them, just shake some extras in there, a lot of the bees will go back to the old hive, but enough will stay.  And if you don't give them the starts of a queen you want to make sure you have plenty of bees because it takes a lot of bees to raise a healthy queen.  For example, you wouldn't want to do a walk away split with, say, 2 frames of bees.

Rick
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Joelel
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« Reply #10 on: March 10, 2010, 11:08:27 AM »

>Your link don't answer my questions.

Well, first, I answered your first question:

>How do you do walk away splits with queen cells or with out ?

By definition a walk away has no queen cell or new queen.  It's just a split where they will raise their own.


Then I gave you a link with an in depth treatment of the subject that covers every other question you asked and many you didn't.  But if you missed them I will elaborate here.

> Do you lock them in when making split ?

I do not.  It is one method that some people use, but it tends to be too hot and they tend to overheat and shaking in a few extra bees does better with less stress.  Another method is to face both new halves toward the old location so they will tend to be more evenly divided.

> Do you take them 2 miles away or move the hives around ?

I never have.  Some people do.

> Do you try to put only house bees in the splits and as few workers as possable ?

You want nurse bees in the new location so they won't  drift.

> How do you do it ?

Any bees on brood comb tend to be nurse bees and tend to stay where you put them.


Michael,I'm sorry if i'm not all here.Can you explain ? Here you say,put them facing toward the old location. Do you leave your queen with some brood and eggs and bees in the old location ? How far away from the front of the old hive do you put the split hives ?

The simple version is to make sure you have some eggs in each of the deeps and put them facing toward the old location. In other words put a bottom board on the left facing the left side of the hive and one on the right facing the right side of the hive and put one deep on each and maybe an empty deep on top of that. Put the tops on and walk away.

Michael,In the even split,even split would be two hives,right ? If you take half,that means you end up with two hives,right ? Here you say,Face both of new hives at the sides of the old hive. Both at the side of the old would be three hives. Do you leave any bees in the old hive ? How far away from the old hive do you put both hives facing ?

An even split. You take half of everything and divide it up. Face both of new hives at the sides of the old hive so the returning bees aren't sure which one to come back to. In a week or so, swap places to equalize the drift to the one with the queen.

Michael,In this walk away split,Where do you put your nucs,say if you split into 3 or 4  nucs ?

a walk away split. You take a frame of eggs, two frames of emerging brood and two frames of pollen and honey and put them in a 5 frame nuc, shake in some extra nurse bees (making sure you don't get the queen), put the lid on and walk away. Come back in four weeks and see if the queen is laying.

Michael,In swarm control,Where do you place your split queen nuc when you move her to a nuc ? How and where do you place all the nucs ? Do you put a frame of eggs in with the queen or just capped brood ? Do you place the queen nuc back in the same place as the old hive or in a different location ?

Swarm control split. Ideally you want to prevent swarming and not have to split. But if there are queen cells I usually put every frame with any queen cells in it's own nuc with a frame of honey and let them rear a queen. This usually relieves the pressure to swarm and gives me very nice queens. But even better, put the old queen in a nuc with a frame of brood and a frame of honey and leave one frame with queen cells at the old hive to simulate a swarm. Many bees are now gone and so is the old queen. Some people do the other kinds of splits (even walk away etc.) in order to prevent swarming. I think it's better to just keep the brood nest open.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2010, 11:41:27 AM by Joelel » Logged

Acts2:37: Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38: Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39: For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
40: And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation
Joelel
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« Reply #11 on: March 10, 2010, 11:25:58 AM »

OK folks,My main problem is, Where and how and how far apart do you place hives (nucs) when you split,so you don't get all the workers back in the same hive ?
« Last Edit: March 10, 2010, 02:31:06 PM by Joelel » Logged

Acts2:37: Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38: Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39: For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
40: And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation
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« Reply #12 on: March 10, 2010, 11:59:57 AM »

I am sorry but you are making this way to hard for yourself.
 All you have to do is find your queen (if there is one). Put her into a hive that is set right next to the 1st
hive. Put a couple of frames of capped brood and honey in with her. I would shake a couple of frames of bees in with her. Now you have 2 hives. One with queen, one without. Right next to each other. If you feel(after a few days) the hive with the queen needs more bees,shake more in, or swap the hives around so old is in the new hives place, and the new is in the old hives place. Not much to it.
Your workers will go back to the old hive. But the bees you are shaking in with the queen are mostly nurse bee, because workers are out working. Nurse bees will become workers and stay with new hive.
I do splits when I have 1 1/2 to 2 suppers full of brood.
If you are concern about workers returning to the old hive, place some kind of an obstruction in front of the knew hive. i.e., branches. So workers coming out have to reorient themselves. 
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Joelel
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« Reply #13 on: March 10, 2010, 08:33:06 PM »

I am sorry but you are making this way to hard for yourself.
 All you have to do is find your queen (if there is one). Put her into a hive that is set right next to the 1st
hive. Put a couple of frames of capped brood and honey in with her. I would shake a couple of frames of bees in with her. Now you have 2 hives. One with queen, one without. Right next to each other. If you feel(after a few days) the hive with the queen needs more bees,shake more in, or swap the hives around so old is in the new hives place, and the new is in the old hives place. Not much to it.
Your workers will go back to the old hive. But the bees you are shaking in with the queen are mostly nurse bee, because workers are out working. Nurse bees will become workers and stay with new hive.
I do splits when I have 1 1/2 to 2 suppers full of brood.
If you are concern about workers returning to the old hive, place some kind of an obstruction in front of the knew hive. i.e., branches. So workers coming out have to reorient themselves. 

Hard for myself ? Give it up,people like you is what makes things hard by saying I make it hard on myself,when I want to know something like where and how and how far away to place splits. Get over yourself.
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Acts2:37: Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38: Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39: For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
40: And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation
Jack
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« Reply #14 on: March 10, 2010, 08:41:37 PM »

Oh boy, here we go again. You can always switch the hives to equalize the bees from drifting if necessary.
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Bee Happy
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« Reply #15 on: March 10, 2010, 08:46:31 PM »

8 inches or greater, up to infinity.
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bailey
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« Reply #16 on: March 10, 2010, 09:32:51 PM »

i split 2 hives this week.
moved the queen and her bees around 10 to 15 feet away, then placed the queenless portion in place of the old hive.
the queenless hives loaded up with returning workers no problem.

really not that hard.
bailey
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« Reply #17 on: March 10, 2010, 11:49:23 PM »

Here you go Joelel; set up two nuc boxes next to the original hive, one of them 12 " away and facing the same direction as the original hive; the other nuc 36" away and facing the same direction as the original hive. Find the queen in the original hive; when you find her isolate that frame until you're done with the splits (just drop the frame & queen in an empty box temporarily). Now remove a frame with eggs, open brood and bees and place it in the nuc box 12" away. Find another frame with eggs, open brood and bees and place in the nuc box 36" away. Now remove a frame with capped/emerging brood and bees and place in the closest nuc. Find another frame with capped/emerging brood and bees and place in farthest nuc. Repeat the last 2 steps so that you now have 2 frames of capped/emerging brood and one frame of eggs/open brood in each nuc. Now place a frame of pollen and honey next to the frame of open brood in each box. If using 4 frame nucs put the lids on the nucs. If using 5 frame nucs put another frame of honey or pollen and honey in each nuc. Put the lids on the nucs. Now replace the original queen back into the original hive (the hive that's 12" away from one nuc and 36" away from the other nuc). Replace the pulled frames with drawn comb, if available, or foundation. If you feel that the nucs don't have enough bees then shake some more in! Most of the bees in the nuc boxes now are nurse bees which is the type of bee needed to raise a new queen. The field bees will go home to the original hive. Who cares? Most were out foraging anyway while you were making a mess of their hive. You now have two new nucs, full of nurse bees, one placed 12" from the original hive and one placed 36" from the old hive. Now, put out your smoker, pack up your tools, say goodbye to the bees, and go home. Don't come back for a week or so; then just peek in and see if you have queen cells. If not, put some more eggs in! Simple!!!
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« Reply #18 on: March 11, 2010, 07:04:52 AM »

Joelel:

Chill out - JsMob was saying you are over thinking it, if you aren't getting your questions answered with all those trying to help, then it is YOU with the communication problem, not them. Watch the attitude, I know for a fact it isn't the first time I've said THAT to you - hope you understand this reply.

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« Reply #19 on: March 11, 2010, 07:10:14 AM »

Pretty good explanation Fish_StiX. I plan on doing a split this weekend although one nuc.

...DOUG
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