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Author Topic: Are They Worth Saving? (+ image)  (Read 3985 times)

Offline Finski

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Re: Are They Worth Saving? (+ image)
« Reply #20 on: February 23, 2010, 02:20:31 PM »

That tiny cluster seems to have a bad nosema. If you join other bees to the cluster they get nosema too.

Only value is the queen and may be or may be not in condition.

I think that healty hive nees all its bees and if you take 2 frame of bees from it, it is not big enough to build up in spring.

It is better that let the big hive grow and when it has 4 box bees, get a laying queen and make a nuc or two. Change that bad tempered queen too. 
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Offline Trot

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Re: Are They Worth Saving? (+ image)
« Reply #21 on: February 23, 2010, 03:06:38 PM »
I agree, there are always reasons for things to be as they may.
I can only speak for my bees and my location, cause others I do not see and can only elaborate, gues at best.
Problems could be many, some minor, others not.
But to call: "Sky is falling, sky is falling."  Does nothing to the solution at all.
One has to gather as much info about the problem as one can and than read through the whole lot and pick out those that make most sense, or those that fit the locale the best and go on from there.

My bees came to be so few for simple reason that that particular hive was a bought as a nuc in previous July - that is the time that queens get finally mated in our parts.
For my bees, some years, the biggest problem is lack of polen.  If weather does not cooperate, they get very little of it and they might go in winter with insufficient number of long-lived bees. 
Nothing less, nothing more is at play here. . .

Offline Eshu

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Re: Are They Worth Saving? (+ image)
« Reply #22 on: February 24, 2010, 11:32:03 AM »
Normally I'd say they are doomed.  But I've had some Russian/Carniolan mutts that overwinter with disturbingly small clusters only to bounce back.

I'd say there isn't much harm in helping them out a little and seeing what happens.  What exactly that help is - I'm not sure.  Sometimes the best thing you can do is leave them alone.

Offline Finski

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Re: Are They Worth Saving? (+ image)
« Reply #23 on: February 24, 2010, 12:55:45 PM »
overwinter with disturbingly small clusters only to bounce back.


Now question is not "a small cluster".  When you look the poo around bees, that does not promise good.

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Offline Hemlock

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Re: Are They Worth Saving? (+ image)
« Reply #24 on: February 24, 2010, 06:15:06 PM »
Trot,
WOW!  General Patton's grandson keeps bees, who knew.  "No beekeeper ever saved a hive by dying for his country..." :-D 
I appreciate the passionate response but understand you do not know the history of this colony.  She knows nothing about survival.  Which now has become irrelevant since: 1, the colony may finally die from lack of numbers, or 2, If the colony lives long enough I'll requeen her with a queen from my strong colony.  Either way her troubled genetics will end as they should.
Now, If this were happening to my strong colony I'd be in fighting in the trenches with you to save her.  But alas, strong colonies seldom need anything they can't get themselves.

ziffabeek,
lol

wd,
nature has been trying to take it's course with this colony for a while now.  I tired of fighting it.  And yet I've brought this colony into the garage where I can feed it syrup, pollen, honey, heat, & 16 hours of light each day.  Even now I can't turn my back on her.

Finski,
Ahh, noticed that did you.  I'm not sure if it is since the entrance may have been blocked during a warm day.  I keep it cleared but so many died in the last week it may have sealed up. 
I'm watching them now in the garage.  They have a SBB so if I see more signs of Nosema I'll medicate.

Eshu,
Yeah I'm still trying to save them.  If I left them alone they'd be dead before April without a doubt.


Thanks you to all who responded.  I learned a trick or two.  In a day or so I'll post a pict of what this hive looks like now in the garage.

Offline Hemlock

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Re: Are They Worth Saving? (+ image)
« Reply #25 on: February 26, 2010, 01:13:27 AM »
Here are the picts.

INSIDE


OUTSIDE


Not shown are 3 shop lights, pollen patties, & space heater


Offline Finski

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Re: Are They Worth Saving? (+ image)
« Reply #26 on: February 26, 2010, 07:10:26 AM »


Finski,
if I see more signs of Nosema I'll medicate.

Do you understand what nosema means?  It destroy the epithel of bee gut and if it is done, it is late medicate.
Fumidil must bee given tp prevent its growth in the gut.

I have had those nosema hives every year and I have found that when I give emerging brood frame from healty hive, it is able to rear new bees and 2/3 of queen will lay normally.


My saving concept

I have saved that kind of colonies and we have named them "cupfull".

* Restrict the hive to 1 frame. Move bees and queen  to clean frame. If have fudill, give t.
a)  Put it above a big hive hive that it get heat from bigger
b) Give to it terrarium heater aor something else which give 1-3 W heat.

Wait that you get emerging brood from bigger hive
Heating helps that brood do not catch cold when you give brood frame.

Little by little add bees from bigger hive.  If you take too much too early, the build up of big hive will suffer.


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Offline rdy-b

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Re: Are They Worth Saving? (+ image)
« Reply #27 on: February 26, 2010, 05:02:03 PM »
whats going on with orientation of the bees when they use the exit are they flying back to the old spot
-or have they been to weak to fly-now that they are warm arent they all flying out into the cold-(would be woried that the suden cold would zzap them)-I give you A for efort :lol: RDY-B

Offline Denny

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Re: Are They Worth Saving? (+ image)
« Reply #28 on: February 27, 2010, 02:06:54 AM »
Here's some thoughts I have from looking at your photo of them in the garage. Seems like there's too much room in which that small cluster will become dispersed .....there's the feeder jar way down at the bottom of the hive and the long tube at the top winding its long way to the outside exit. If you want to keep them indoors like that, what about moving them into a nuc size box with their entrance right next to that exit hole in your window opening, with just a short tube to the outside, and put the feeder jar (within an empty nuc body) on the top bars (held up by a couple 1/4" square sticks) right near the cluster. Feeding pollen pattie would help them, too.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2010, 08:16:51 AM by Denny »