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Author Topic: Restacking Supers- effect on Varroa Mites  (Read 1734 times)
JWChesnut
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« on: February 20, 2010, 04:24:57 PM »

I overwinter with two full depth brood+super.
Winters are mild here with continuing flight, but little change in stores.

In five colonies I restacked the brood over top the honey super in October. 
In two colonies I left the brood on the bottom. The supers are generally about 1/3 to 1/2 capped at the beginning of winter.

The five restacked colonies are vigorous and increasing (Almond and Eucalyptus are in bloom).  The two unmanipulated colonies are declining with varroa and Israeli virus.

Is this just a random co-incidence, or do manipulating the brood//honey stack affect the varroa mite?  Anyone else with a similar experience?
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doak
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« Reply #1 on: February 20, 2010, 11:34:12 PM »

Try it again and if it works do it again, and again and so no. If it doesn't have any other adverse effects I would keep it up and do all that way. In other words, like every thing else, do what works for you. Who can say it is wrong just because it isn't documented. huh :)doak
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Finski
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« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2010, 12:37:35 PM »


Is this just a random co-incidence, or do manipulating the brood//honey stack affect the varroa mite?  Anyone else with a similar experience?

It 200% sure that manipulation does not affect on varroa.

Use thymol or formic acid to handle varroa problem and in all your hives.
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Ollie
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« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2010, 06:04:10 PM »

Use thymol or formic acid to handle varroa problem and in all your hives.

That is a short term fix, nothing more than a crutch to keep the bees going for a while. It doesn't help them overcome, it doesn't promote genetic resistance, the only thing getting stronger there, is the mites, eventually the mites will be resistant to treatment and the bee population will have to pay the price.
I do not use any chemicals, I have all screened bottoms, some say that it takes care of about 20% of the mites...
I use confectioners sugar to try and dislodge some of the mites, maybe it take care of 10% or more I don't know.
But I do know that coating the bees with the confectioners sugar 10 days apart take care of a lot of those mites and before winter sets in, I give them another coating after the queen stops laying at that point all of the mites are on the bees, I feel that that coating take care of a significant amount of mites, enough so that the colony can survive the winter and get things moving for the coming flow in the spring.
6 out of 7 hives have made it through the winter so far, the one that died I believe due to excess moisture, a hive too level (flat) and the water must have ran right onto the cluster. They had tons of honey. they didn't starve, there is water damage on the inner cover, the massonite is a tad swelled up on one side of the hole.

That's my 2 cents...
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Finski
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« Reply #4 on: February 22, 2010, 12:24:11 AM »



That is a short term fix, nothing more than a crutch to keep the bees going for a while. It doesn't help them overcome, it doesn't promote genetic resistance, the only thing getting stronger there,

I do not use any chemicals, I have all screened bottoms, some say that it takes care of about 20% of the mites....

That's my 2 cents...


Ollie, you have real dreams about varroa. And you do not care much about facts.


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Ollie
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« Reply #5 on: February 22, 2010, 09:53:49 PM »

How so?
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Finski
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« Reply #6 on: February 25, 2010, 11:49:34 AM »


This how: "I do not use any chemicals,"
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c10250
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« Reply #7 on: February 25, 2010, 11:58:50 AM »


I have all screened bottoms, some say that it takes care of about 20% of the mites...
I use confectioners sugar to try and dislodge some of the mites, maybe it take care of 10% or more I don't know.

That's my 2 cents...


By your logic, bees may build resistance to confectioners sugar as well, or even SBBs.  Mites that hang on during the sugar dusting, will survive to propagate that trait.  Also, mites that hang on to bees more will not fall through the SBB, and will live to propagate that trait.

I can't see where a mite will build up resistance to an acid bath, but not to powdered sugar, or heck, even a SBB.  My bet would be that they would build a resistance to powdered sugar dusting way before they would build a resistance to an acid bath.

Ken
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deknow
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« Reply #8 on: February 25, 2010, 12:07:08 PM »

the only varroa i worry about are the ones in my dreams...they are rare in our colonies (even the bee inspector doesn't find them)...and yes, we use no treatments (chemicals, acids, sugar dusting, essential oils, magic beans, etc).  this is "fact"...the "fact" that you feel the need to treat your bees (which i understand doing) doesn't mean your "facts" trump others.

deknow
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Finski
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« Reply #9 on: February 26, 2010, 06:26:51 AM »

the only varroa i worry about are the ones in my dreams...they are rare in our colonies (even the bee inspector doesn't find them)...and yes, we use no treatments (chemicals, acids, sugar dusting, essential oils, magic beans, etc).  this is "fact"...the "fact" that you feel the need to treat your bees (which i understand doing) doesn't mean your "facts" trump others.

deknow

What ever. I have had varroa 30 years and they surely kill hives, at least in my yard and in my neighbours yard. I do not give them change to kill my hives if I only can.

I know only one beekeeper in my country who says that he do not use nothing. I have bought queen from that guy and the hives has as much mites as others. 

A carrot has 100 times more oxalic acid than the hive which has trickled. Hives has been in good condition after varroa treatment.

Yeah! Don't do nothing. Nature knows best. But is the nature on mite's side or bee's side - that is the question!


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Ollie
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« Reply #10 on: February 27, 2010, 09:07:36 AM »

[quote}
Nature knows best. But is the nature on mite's side or bee's side - that is the question!


[/quote]

That a great question.
Now if I understand that a queen can get tagged up to forty times, that drones do travel and are not just bound to one hive and do visit other hives in their lives,  I guess that where they get the genetic diversity, then nature is on the bee side. If as beeks we stop giving all of the bees crutches in chemical form, then nature will be able to proceed and make bees resistant to whatever natural threat that is out there.
I understand that Acid is found in all hives, albeit in much smaller amounts than after a treatment, whereas powdered sugar is not, so i a way, the sugar is also a crutch.
I actually plan on giving one hive in each of my location absolutely no treatment what so ever...lets see what happens. I expect to loose some over time but I also expect that one will survive more than a couple of years, that would be the one where my future grafting will come from...
But even then, back to genetic diversity, it will not ensure that the queens I get from there will be the same as the mother. Lest I can saturate the area with drones from that hive, even then the probabilities of replicating that queen will be small.

Mites...mate once, maybe more...( don't know too much about the little buggers), lay a few eggs, their genetic diversity is going on at a much slower pace...eventually they will not be as much of a problem.
 Fertilizers, pesticides and other man made compounds are a much harder thing to wrestle with.


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c10250
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« Reply #11 on: February 27, 2010, 01:32:36 PM »


Fossil evidence shows that the honey bee was once native to the Americas.  Something caused it to go extinct.  Evidently natural selection wasn't good enough to overcome that hurdle.

« Last Edit: March 01, 2010, 07:31:19 AM by c10250 » Logged
deknow
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« Reply #12 on: February 27, 2010, 06:51:43 PM »

What ever. I have had varroa 30 years and they surely kill hives, at least in my yard and in my neighbours yard. I do not give them change to kill my hives if I only can.
i didn't say varroa doesn't kill hives, i said that varroa are rare in our colonies.
Quote
I have bought queen from that guy and the hives has as much mites as others.
i'm going to go out on a limb and assume that if we compared the management practices between you and this other beekeeper, that the use of treatments would not be the only difference?  i don't think you can merely buy a "magic queen", plug it into the same system minus the treatments, and be successful.  perhaps there is more than genetics to be had from this beekeeper?

Quote
a carrot has 100 times more oxalic acid than the hive which has trickled. Hives has been in good condition after varroa treatment.
i've never seen a bee eat a carrot.  if your hives are performing to your satisfaction, i see no reason to change what you are doing...however, you were the one insisting that treatment is necessary.  it may well be for you, in your area, with your managment practices, with your stock...but it is far from a universal truth, and it's not a dream.

Quote
Yeah! Don't do nothing. Nature knows best. But is the nature on mite's side or bee's side - that is the question!
nature is on the side of balance.  a better question would be "who's side is the mite on?"  hint: a healthy bee makes the best host.

deknow
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