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Author Topic: Question about mite resistance to apistan  (Read 2713 times)
drobbins
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« on: April 26, 2005, 02:14:49 PM »

Hello All,

I'm a total newbie here, just hived my first package last Saturday
question about resistance
do the mites become resistant as a result of the way an individual hive is treated, or can a newly established hive get contaminated with mites that are already resistant?

Also, an update on my first package
I thought I was being real smart and pried the little metal disc that was stapled to the top of the queen cage up about 3/8 inch and used it to suspend the cage between 2 frames. The guy at Brushy Mountain suggested putting the cage near the top of the frame since we are having a cool snap, I guess it would be warmer there. Well, impatient me figured out after 2 days (yesterday) that since I have a screened bottom board I could look in from the bottom and see what's going on without opening the hive. I peek in and there's bee's everywhere, but I also see something in there that's not a frame bottom. Hard to tell what I'm seeing. Could it be the queen cage has fallen to the bottom? That wouldn't be good. I wait another day and worry about it. Today I opened the hive up and in fact the cage has fallen to the bottom. I pull enough frames out to reach in and retrieve it and the queen is still in there ok. With my untrained eye I don't see any sign of her coming close to escaping so (this may have been dumb, tell me if it was) I rupture the screen on the cage to release her and stick the cage back in the hive and close it back up. a couple of hours later I went and looked again and all the bee's are working on comb and the queen is running around and looks fine.  So, I think I'm in pretty good shape. The cool snap is over and the weather is lookin pretty good. The bee's are doing orientation flight and taking the syrup.

I thank you folks for all the excellent info that is available on this board
Dave
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Michael Bush
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« Reply #1 on: April 26, 2005, 02:43:34 PM »

>do the mites become resistant as a result of the way an individual hive is treated, or can a newly established hive get contaminated with mites that are already resistant?

The mites may well already be resistant.  If not they will get there eventually.  Smiley

>I rupture the screen on the cage to release her

Like poke a hole in the screen?  I'm not sure I can picture this.  I would peal it all the way back or pull the cork.  I'd be afraid of poking the queen when the screen gave or of the queen getting hurt on sharp wires trying to escape.

> and stick the cage back in the hive and close it back up. a couple of hours later I went and looked again and all the bee's are working on comb and the queen is running around and looks fine.

So that worked out.

> So, I think I'm in pretty good shape. The cool snap is over and the weather is lookin pretty good. The bee's are doing orientation flight and taking the syrup.

Check back in a week and see if there are eggs and larvae.
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Michael Bush
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drobbins
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« Reply #2 on: April 26, 2005, 03:07:17 PM »

here's a pic

http://68.142.29.112/cage.jpg

seems to have worked fine
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Finsky
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« Reply #3 on: April 26, 2005, 03:25:53 PM »

Quote from: ms132872

do the mites become resistant as a result of the way an individual hive is treated, or can a newly established hive get contaminated with mites that are already resistant?


I noticed 2 years ago that I have apistan resistant mitepopulation. I have  had mites since 1987.  First I used peritzin against varroa. First solitary mite hive I killed 1982. My bees are 50 km from Russian border.

Now I have used oxalic acid liquid .

Fluvinat resistant varroas can now be where ever. In Canada they have had bad losses.
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drobbins
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« Reply #4 on: April 26, 2005, 03:36:41 PM »

like I said, I'm a total newbie
I took a class  on beekeeping from the state
they talked a lot about mites but all they discussed as a treatment was apistan
from what I read apistan resitance is a problem in my area
like everyone I'd rather not use harsh, expensive chemicals especially if they don't even work
oxalic acid seems to be pretty widly used with good results
I'm reading more and expect to give it a try

Dave
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Jay
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« Reply #5 on: April 26, 2005, 03:57:25 PM »

Look also into IPM (integrated pest management). This is the use of all kinds of natural methods ie. screened bottom boards, drone comb removal, hygenic strains, etc. other than chemicals that can reduce mites in the hive. Cheesy
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drobbins
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« Reply #6 on: April 26, 2005, 04:04:15 PM »

yea, I'll definetly try to avoid chemicals, but ya gotta do what ya gotta do
I just went and checked on em, and they are definetly coming in with legs loaded with pollen
they are doing what bees do   Cheesy
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Michael Bush
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« Reply #7 on: April 26, 2005, 04:38:37 PM »

>like everyone I'd rather not use harsh, expensive chemicals especially if they don't even work

Especially when they don't work.  The only way I know of to use nothing is small cell.  The least reactive "chemical" I know of is FGMO fog, but it has to be used regularly because it is a bit of a "gentle" solution.

>oxalic acid seems to be pretty widly used with good results
I'm reading more and expect to give it a try

Oxalic is very effective.  

http://wind.prohosting.com/tbhguy/bee/oxal.htm

http://wind.prohosting.com/tbhguy/b.htm
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Michael Bush
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drobbins
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« Reply #8 on: April 26, 2005, 05:14:01 PM »

well, now that I have the attention of folks who know what they are talking about  Cheesy
A friend and I took this beekeeping class from the state
we got 2 packages of bee's last weekend
put one at his house, one at mine
of course now I've learned most people would recomend you start with 2 hives
I mean, I sorta have 2 hive, just one of em ain't here
anyway, so I'm thinking what I should do is try to split the hive I have
Is it reasonable to think that if I feed em heavy I'll be able to split em mid summer??
I understand every case is different, I'm just wondering if that's an unreasonable expectation
with only 1 hive I ain't scared of throwing the syrup at em

Thanks for all the great info
Dave
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leominsterbeeman
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« Reply #9 on: April 26, 2005, 05:22:39 PM »

You are now going to learn that if you ask 5 beekeepers a question, you will get atleast 6 different answers.

I say, leave them alone and don't go for a split at the end of the summer.  You are better off to see ifthey make it through the winter and then do a split in the spring.   Wintering two small colonies is harder that one large one.

If you want two- side by side,  move one or if you can buy another nuc or package and start #3....  See it's addictive.  

The reason to have two is so that you can compare how the hives are doing relative to each other.  

Now that your queen if freed, let her be for atlteast a week, and then check back to see her or eggs and larve.
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pardee
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« Reply #10 on: April 26, 2005, 07:33:50 PM »

Mites have become resistant to the two kinds of strips that have been used over the last few years, for two reasons. 1. The improper use of strips by beekeepers however I don’t think this is the primary reason. 2. The fact that we only have two kinds of the hard chemical type treatment. Like in other insecticides you need three variants to keep incests from developing immunity. So resistant’s was only a matter of time. There is no silver bullet, however we have a lot of different methods if used will keep the mites at tolerable levels. Integrated Pest management in, screened bottom boards, Sucrocide spray, Api Life Var, Food grade mineral oil and now available in the US Formic acid in the form of Mite-Away II. All have there pros and cons. And yes let us not forget! Many smart people have been working on a better Honeybee. For instance the Buckfast Bee that was developed by Brother Adams has a very good track record on control of tracheal mites. And Sue Colby form Ohio State University has an impressive breeding program for resistance to both Varroa and Tracheal mites with her New World Carniolan bees, with a beneficial side affect of disease resistance. Along with the introduction of Russian honeybees I feel it will only be a matter of time before we discontinue the use of chemicals.
   As far as Queen introduction I found a plan for a queen introduction frame in Bee Culture by adding a strip 3/4 by 3/4 the width of the top bar and miter cut a slot the will accommodate the queen cage with enough room for the bees to get at the candy plug, and a 3/8 space below the screen cage so the bees can communicate with the queen. I leave them in each box that way I never have to remove a frame and never worry about the bees building burr comb or the cage falling to the bottom of the hive.
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Michael Bush
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« Reply #11 on: April 26, 2005, 08:03:57 PM »

On the topic of splitting.  I find my plans usually have one problem.  The bees.  Their plans are seldom the same as mine.  You MIGHT be able to split them and still get two hives to get through winter.  I've had some "super" hives on occasion that I split several times and got several through the Winter.  I've also had many more that I didn't split at all and they just built up enough to get through the winter.  And a lot that are somewhere in between where I got some honey but no splits.

I'd wait and see what the bees say.  If the hive is busting at the seams in June, maybe you could split them.

On the subject of mites.  The first skill you need in today's world as a beekeeper is to monitor the mite load on your bees.  Pick a method.  Sugar roll, natural mite drop, ucapping some drone, whatever it is you want to use or some combination.  If you don't monitor then you are taking on faith that whatever you are doing is working, when, in fact, no matter what you do, it could be failing.  And that ESPECIALLY includes the "recommended" chemicals.  The last time I used Apistan I lost all my hives.  The next year a lot more people around here used it and lost their hives.  If you don't monitor you won't know IF you need to do something and if you don't monitor before and after you won't know IF what you did worked.
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Michael Bush
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm
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drobbins
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« Reply #12 on: April 26, 2005, 08:18:26 PM »

Michael
what you say is right in line with what they taught us in the class
monitor, monitor monitor
their preffered method was a suger roll, but other folks I talk to say a sticky board is better
they say sugar roll is great when you don't have much time, but for your own hive do sticky board over 48 hrs
I was just kinda dissapointed that the class I took only mentioned apistan for mite control
I guess a state sponsored class is only gonna mention govmnt approved treatments
I'm impressed by the huge amount of info I'm finding here

Thanx for you advice
Dave
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Finsky
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« Reply #13 on: April 27, 2005, 04:55:34 AM »

When you use oxalic acid liquid, DO NOT GIVE IT TWICE, just one handling.
Hive must be in the winter ball autumn, and no brood.
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drobbins
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« Reply #14 on: April 27, 2005, 07:57:19 AM »

Do you just get oxalic acid somewhere like this

http://www.chemistrystore.com/oxalic_acid.htm

or is there somewhere local you can find it

Dave
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Michael Bush
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« Reply #15 on: April 27, 2005, 08:20:39 AM »

Oxalic acid is sold as wood bleach at most hardware and paint stores.
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Michael Bush
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
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"Everything works if you let it."--Rick Nielsen
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