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Author Topic: How do I increase population in an OH this time of year?  (Read 3740 times)
specialkayme
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« Reply #20 on: February 15, 2010, 07:22:36 PM »

As requested:

http://i711.photobucket.com/albums/ww119/specialkayme/P2150001.jpg

http://i711.photobucket.com/albums/ww119/specialkayme/P2150002.jpg

http://i711.photobucket.com/albums/ww119/specialkayme/P2150003.jpg

http://i711.photobucket.com/albums/ww119/specialkayme/P2150004.jpg

And here are some more close ups on the honey cappings, the ones that a friend said look diseased:

http://i711.photobucket.com/albums/ww119/specialkayme/P2150005.jpg

http://i711.photobucket.com/albums/ww119/specialkayme/P2150006.jpg

http://i711.photobucket.com/albums/ww119/specialkayme/P2150007.jpg

http://i711.photobucket.com/albums/ww119/specialkayme/P2150008.jpg

http://i711.photobucket.com/albums/ww119/specialkayme/P2150009.jpg

http://i711.photobucket.com/albums/ww119/specialkayme/P2150010.jpg

http://i711.photobucket.com/albums/ww119/specialkayme/P2150011.jpg

http://i711.photobucket.com/albums/ww119/specialkayme/P2150012.jpg

http://i711.photobucket.com/albums/ww119/specialkayme/P2150013.jpg
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« Reply #21 on: February 15, 2010, 07:27:26 PM »

I'm not sure thats brood. It may be bee bread under the caps.Lets wait for someone with a keen eye to comment.
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specialkayme
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« Reply #22 on: February 15, 2010, 08:27:07 PM »

Oh I know it isn't brood. It's honey (I think).

A friend just told me they looked weird, and I might have a disease.
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« Reply #23 on: February 15, 2010, 08:49:15 PM »

I had a couple guys talking on ventrilo looking at pics,one suggested the comb may have sagged in the heat causing distorted cell shapes. Disesase usually shows up in the brood.Unless maybe you had some fermentation going on. Could you have had wax moths?
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specialkayme
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« Reply #24 on: February 15, 2010, 09:03:46 PM »

The comb was distorted due to heat. I left the OH outside one fall day (without bees in it, but with that frame in it) and it overheated before I could get back to it.

I know there is at least one wax moth larvae in there right now.
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Finski
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« Reply #25 on: February 15, 2010, 11:19:02 PM »


What I understand from pictures is that the numbers of bees is so small that it is not able to rear brood.

Another thing is that open food is so much that bees cannot control fermenting of something else in their stores.

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JP
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« Reply #26 on: February 16, 2010, 12:12:26 AM »

I'm not sure thats brood. It may be bee bread under the caps.Lets wait for someone with a keen eye to comment.

I see no brood, some bee bread and definitely not enough bees to keep up with the environment in the hive.

I agree with Finsky, with so few bees and that much open honey, you're bound to have fermentation issues which will of course affect any bees feeding on the fermented honey.

Heat would explain the deformed cells.


...JP
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David LaFerney
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« Reply #27 on: February 16, 2010, 07:26:03 AM »

I'm sure you guys know what you are talking about.  This isn't very many bees:

Especially since they might have been born in November or even earlier.  In this video you can see mating nucs being set up with about a cup of bees:
Füllen der Einwabenkästchen (EWK)


So, my question.  Is it just the number of bees that makes this a lost cause or would it be enough if they were younger or in a smaller hive without the fermentation problem. 

If Specialkayme really wanted to save them and he cut out the fermenting comb, and reduced the volume of the hive to just what they could cover would they have a chance?

I know it would be more trouble than it would be worth, but would it make a difference?
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D Coates
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« Reply #28 on: February 17, 2010, 12:48:34 PM »

If Specialkayme really wanted to save them and he cut out the fermenting comb, and reduced the volume of the hive to just what they could cover would they have a chance?

I've been watching this post as I'm finishing up a 5 frame OB hive and will be hopefully trying to overwinter a hive in there next year.  However, my 2 cents from my experience?, nope.  The hive is dwindling quickly, no warmth for larva, no nurse bees, no brood to replace the population, spring is too far away, and at least one known wax moth larva has been seen.  Personally I don't think any amount of effort, short of getting young bees and brood from somewhere else will save this hive.  I'm truely an optimist, but I'm also a realist and have pulled various "plugs" when deemed unsustainable.  Unless SpecialK has got time to burn or wants to experiment and learn (not a bad pursuit), call it a day and take the hive outside.  At least at that point the drawn wax and stores will be saved for future use.
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specialkayme
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« Reply #29 on: February 17, 2010, 01:51:37 PM »

Alright, so maybe the colony is lost. But, I just don't have the heart to put the little girls outside to their death. Hopefully someone will come along with some nurse bees or some brood that can help.

I'm taking a trip to TN this weekend (I hope) to talk to a beekp out there who's selling his operation, maybe I will get something of use when I'm out there.
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Finski
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« Reply #30 on: February 17, 2010, 02:45:21 PM »

.
In this kind of system the heat of cluster escapes from bees. If bees are in winter ball they have 23C temp in the cluster. If they have brood, they have 32C.  If you think about this aquarium and the number of bees, the colony have no possibilyty to controls its heat.

What I understand about wintering glass box hive, they do not survive over winter. They have too hot in the nest to be in winter rest.

If bees are in cellar wintering, the temp must be under +7C and dark all the time.

The wintering space should be as small as the colony. Now bees have enormous room to take care and too much open food.
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kathyp
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« Reply #31 on: February 17, 2010, 03:16:35 PM »

my observation hive is 5 frames.  they got down to about 1 1/2 frames (both sides) over the winter.  they queen is now laying like gangbusters and they are quickly expanding.  you can save a smaller hive indoors, but i'd have to agree that yours looks lost.

do you have a hive outside that you can combine this hive into?  if not, they are all going to die anyway...

you could take them out to your bee yard on a warm day, and shake them off.  they'll join other hives and all you will have lost is the queen.  drop her into some alcohol and keep it for swarm bait.
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David LaFerney
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« Reply #32 on: February 17, 2010, 04:27:25 PM »

After looking at that video again the O Hive looks to have a lot fewer bees, and they are tired and old, and they have too much space, and the wrong time of year.

If it was mine I would probably still do everything I could think of.  Mostly though because it's winter and I'm bored.
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« Reply #33 on: February 17, 2010, 05:44:30 PM »

The package I first installed in my OB hive made it through 2 winters with no problems. When it is too cold to go outside and cleanse the hive activity slows down too a crawl.
  My OB hive finally dwindled at the end of last summer and a huge swarm moved in. It  was in there until fall and finally moved out leaving the hive empty for the first winter since we got it.
I can't wait to replenish it in the spring.
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specialkayme
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« Reply #34 on: February 17, 2010, 07:06:51 PM »

I think I'd rather just watch them dwindle. I don't have another hive to combine them into.

The package I first installed in my OB hive made it through 2 winters with no problems. When it is too cold to go outside and cleanse the hive activity slows down too a crawl.
  My OB hive finally dwindled at the end of last summer and a huge swarm moved in. It  was in there until fall and finally moved out leaving the hive empty for the first winter since we got it.
I can't wait to replenish it in the spring.

How big is your OH? Pictures?
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« Reply #35 on: February 17, 2010, 07:11:11 PM »

http://s93.photobucket.com/albums/l65/kwrabbit/Observatioin%20Hive/
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Finski
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« Reply #36 on: February 17, 2010, 11:10:54 PM »

my observation hive is 5 frames.  they got down to about 1 1/2 frames (both sides) over the winter.  they queen is now laying like gangbusters and they are quickly expanding. .


Yes, you have spring weathers there  +10C and sun. The lenght of winter rules how old bees survive.
http://www.wunderground.com/US/OR/Boring.html
In a new text it was said that in small cluster bees will work more to keep the hive warm and they tire sooner than in big cluster and their gut will be filled sooner.
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specialkayme
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« Reply #37 on: February 21, 2010, 02:44:20 PM »

Problem solved . . . sorta.

I drove out to TN last friday and bought five hives from a guy that was getting out of the bus. Today I opened them up to check them out, grabbed a frame of nurse bees, and shook them into the OH. I walked away to check on the rest of the hives. When I came back about 10 min later, the queen was dead as a doorstop. Those nurse bees were not interested in her staying alive, and were all over her body stinging her. There were too few of her attendants to save her. Kinda sad to watch.

So I just took the queen from one of the other hives, put her in the OH, then combined the rest with the weakest hive I had.

In hindsight, I guess I should have taken the nurse bees away from their queen for a day or two before I put them into the OH, but I was afraid with the outdoor temps they wouldn't have lasted through the night.
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D Coates
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« Reply #38 on: February 22, 2010, 10:22:12 AM »

Don't be too hard on yourself, look at this as a learning experience.  You had a lemon and you eventually made lemonaide.  Everyone who was reading this post probably learned something as well.  I know I did.  
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David LaFerney
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« Reply #39 on: February 22, 2010, 11:15:14 AM »

Problem solved . . . sorta.

I drove out to TN last friday and bought five hives from a guy that was getting out of the bus. Today I opened them up to check them out, grabbed a frame of nurse bees, and shook them into the OH. I walked away to check on the rest of the hives. When I came back about 10 min later, the queen was dead as a doorstop. Those nurse bees were not interested in her staying alive, and were all over her body stinging her. There were too few of her attendants to save her. Kinda sad to watch.

So I just took the queen from one of the other hives, put her in the OH, then combined the rest with the weakest hive I had.

In hindsight, I guess I should have taken the nurse bees away from their queen for a day or two before I put them into the OH, but I was afraid with the outdoor temps they wouldn't have lasted through the night.

How do you know they were nurse bees?
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