Need Bees Removed?
International
Beekeeping Forums
July 30, 2014, 02:36:41 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
News: ATTENTION ALL NEW MEMBERS
PLEASE READ THIS OR YOUR ACCOUNT MAY BE DELETED - CLICK HERE
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar bee removal Login Register Chat  

Pages: [1] 2 3  All   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: How do I increase population in an OH this time of year?  (Read 3621 times)
specialkayme
Field Bee
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 929

Location: Central NC - (somewhere either in Raleigh, Greensboro, or inbetween)


« on: February 13, 2010, 11:20:26 AM »

So I have an OH (have had for a a few years) that I put a colony that was too weak to make it through the winter. I figured moving them inside would give them a better chance of making it.

Long story short, there was a queen issue, of which Kona Queen helped me out with. After the winter solstice I switched their feeder to 1:1 sugar, and gave them a 50/50 mix of Mega bee and natural pollen.

Things went well for a week or two, as the queen layed some eggs. But out of nowhere she stopped about a month ago. Now the numbers are dropping (as they tend to do in the winter) and I'm afraid if she doesn't start laying soon the numbers won't get up enough to have a sustainable colony.

They have plenty of pollen and honey stores (At least for an OH). I'm sure this cold weather isn't helping out much. Any ideas on how I can get her to think about laying again?

The only thing I can think of is to take out the Mega Bee and switch to Global Patties (see if they like it). Other than that I'm at a loss. Looking for some help.




p.s. I know OH are really a bust or boom type of thing, I'm just using the OH as an experiment to better understand how to increase numbers in the rest of my hives. If I lose it, so be it, but I"m trying to learn from it rather than just letting it go. Thanks.

p.p.s. I'll have pics up by later today.
Logged
JP
The Swarm King
Universal Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 11668


Location: Metairie, Louisiana

I like doing cut-outs, but I love catching swarms!


WWW
« Reply #1 on: February 13, 2010, 03:28:35 PM »

If you have the resources from other hives or other beekeepers in your area, probably the best way to increase your numbers is to add some nurse bees, other than that, a very well fed queenless bunch of bees you could introduce, but make certain they are well fed and queenless for about two days.

I conferred with Alan Bukley about your situation and we were on the same page as to the introduction of nurse bees, but he has had success introducing a well fed queenless bunch as your next best option.

The idea with the second option is that the queenright hive will allow the queenless bunch in as they will have food immediately available to contribute to the queenright colony.

Hope this helps.

No offense to your Kona queen but many have stated that they are not much to brag about. One season wonders? Maybe not even. Sorry to be so blunt but that's the feedback I've gotten from at least 4 beeks who have used them never again.


...JP
Logged

"Good friends are as sweet as honey" Winne the Pooh

My pictures can be viewed at http://picasaweb.google.com/pyxicephalus
and
http://picasaweb.google.com/112138792165178452970

My Youtube videos can be viewed here: http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=JPthebeeman&aq=f

My website JPthebeeman.com http://www.jpthebeeman.com/jpthebeeman/
specialkayme
Field Bee
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 929

Location: Central NC - (somewhere either in Raleigh, Greensboro, or inbetween)


« Reply #2 on: February 13, 2010, 03:34:25 PM »

As promised, here are some pics.

http://i711.photobucket.com/albums/ww119/specialkayme/P2130006.jpg

http://i711.photobucket.com/albums/ww119/specialkayme/P2130005.jpg

http://i711.photobucket.com/albums/ww119/specialkayme/P2130007.jpg

http://i711.photobucket.com/albums/ww119/specialkayme/P2130008.jpg

http://i711.photobucket.com/albums/ww119/specialkayme/P2130009.jpg
Logged
specialkayme
Field Bee
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 929

Location: Central NC - (somewhere either in Raleigh, Greensboro, or inbetween)


« Reply #3 on: February 13, 2010, 03:43:58 PM »

probably the best way to increase your numbers is to add some nurse bees

I don't have any other hives. This was my last one. I ordered a nuc for next season, and I'm contemplating ordering either a second or a package, but I don't have any other bees to add, although I'd love to.

I also feel bad asking for nurse bees from someone else. Especially this time of year, taking away a frame of nurse bees would cause death to that colony.

I was hoping for another option, if available. Although I understand if there isn't one. It's hard for me to ask for help, then question the help that I"m given.

And thank you JP for both the time, as well as your inquiry with a fellow beek. It means alot.

No offense to your Kona queen but many have stated that they are not much to brag about. One season wonders? Maybe not even. Sorry to be so blunt but that's the feedback I've gotten from at least 4 beeks who have used them never again.

No offense taken. I needed the queen in November, so I didn't have very many options. Kona were the only ones available, and I planned on replacing her next spring anyway. I was just hoping she could make it through the winter. If not, I would have lost the colony anyway.
Logged
JP
The Swarm King
Universal Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 11668


Location: Metairie, Louisiana

I like doing cut-outs, but I love catching swarms!


WWW
« Reply #4 on: February 13, 2010, 03:58:31 PM »

Glad I could be of some help. Good luck to you.


...JP
Logged

"Good friends are as sweet as honey" Winne the Pooh

My pictures can be viewed at http://picasaweb.google.com/pyxicephalus
and
http://picasaweb.google.com/112138792165178452970

My Youtube videos can be viewed here: http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=JPthebeeman&aq=f

My website JPthebeeman.com http://www.jpthebeeman.com/jpthebeeman/
David LaFerney
Field Bee
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 924


Location: Cookeville, TN - U.S.A.


WWW
« Reply #5 on: February 13, 2010, 04:08:25 PM »

On another thread someone had some pictures of an OH that they had set up for a farm show or something, and then taken to a nursing home where the bees could go into an aquarium with a few flowers in it instead of just out a window into the winter.  Maybe you could do that (but with another hose going out from the aquarium) and feed inside the aquarium so that the bees could go in there for water, food and to cleanse even when it's winter outside.  Also you could put a light with a timer near the aquarium to simulate the day length of March or April, and keep the OH covered as much as possible.  

My thought is to make it so that the field bees are going out of the hive and bringing back nectar and pollen -  that's what causes a queen to start laying isn't it?.  Would your wife mind if you kept her valentines flowers in there too?

Since you can't get more bees, maybe something like this would get her to start laying again.

You're more or less experimenting at this point anyway, and if you can get an old aquarium (I've got one you can use  Smiley) it wouldn't be too hard to set up.  

Just an idea.
Logged

"It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so." Samuel Clemens

Putting the "ape" in apiary since 2009.
David LaFerney
Field Bee
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 924


Location: Cookeville, TN - U.S.A.


WWW
« Reply #6 on: February 13, 2010, 04:22:13 PM »

Something else I thought of.  Since there is such a small number of bees it might help them to maintain the temperature on the brood area if you taped a piece of aluminum foil over that area of the glass to act as a radiant barrier - like one of those emergency "space blankets".   It would be pretty cool if you could get such a small number of bees to pull through.

I wish I had an observation hive. 
Logged

"It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so." Samuel Clemens

Putting the "ape" in apiary since 2009.
specialkayme
Field Bee
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 929

Location: Central NC - (somewhere either in Raleigh, Greensboro, or inbetween)


« Reply #7 on: February 13, 2010, 04:29:08 PM »

I like the way you think David: Outside the box . . . and inside the aquarium . . . I think. LOL

The only problem with that is I don't have any flowering plants at the moment. If I started growing them, it would take at least a month or two to get them going, and by them the hive would either boom or bust.

Additionally, I don't think the problem is that they don't have pollen. I've been feeding them pollen and they have plenty inside the hive. Unless they don't like the kind that I gave them.
Logged
specialkayme
Field Bee
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 929

Location: Central NC - (somewhere either in Raleigh, Greensboro, or inbetween)


« Reply #8 on: February 13, 2010, 04:40:13 PM »

Something else I thought of.  Since there is such a small number of bees it might help them to maintain the temperature on the brood area if you taped a piece of aluminum foil over that area of the glass to act as a radiant barrier - like one of those emergency "space blankets".   It would be pretty cool if you could get such a small number of bees to pull through.

I don't think the problem is with lost heat (although I could be wrong). I put a fish thermometer on the side of it, and the inside temps stay in the mid 70's (The same as the inside of the house). Plus I grow some plants in that room and have a 400 watt HPS on for 12 hours a day, so heat isn't a problem.

Plus, I heard on the news that tinfoil on the windows helps during the day, but sucks out heat at night. It ends up doing more bad than good. Although I guess I could go with some foam or something.

I wish I had an observation hive. 

Want me to build you one? grin
Logged
David LaFerney
Field Bee
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 924


Location: Cookeville, TN - U.S.A.


WWW
« Reply #9 on: February 13, 2010, 06:26:41 PM »

"Plus, I heard on the news that tinfoil on the windows helps during the day, but sucks out heat at night. It ends up doing more bad than good."

You probably did hear that, but it's not true.  Aluminum foil has extremely low emissivity  - that's the "low e" in energy efficient windows and other insulation products.  It inhibits the movement of radiant heat energy night and day. 

I don't know if it will help or not, but there is a big difference between the 70 degree or so that is room temperature and the 90+ degree temps that bees maintain in the brood nest area. 

I'm not saying that you aren't keeping them warm, I'm thinking that they need it to be REALLY warm to successfully raise brood, and that is hard for such a small number of bees to do.  It would probably be easier for them if they were in a much smaller volume with a much smaller surface area - but they aren't.

Also, I wasn't really suggesting that you actually try to supply nectar in the form of flowers.  The idea is that you give the foragers an area that is outside of the hive that simulates a warm sunny day where they can bring back food from.   Who knows if it would work or not.

Logged

"It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so." Samuel Clemens

Putting the "ape" in apiary since 2009.
specialkayme
Field Bee
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 929

Location: Central NC - (somewhere either in Raleigh, Greensboro, or inbetween)


« Reply #10 on: February 13, 2010, 06:52:47 PM »

They may need some extra heat, but I'm not sure with the insulation that I have there now (some felt, wood, ect) that tin foil would work or not. But, I guess it's worth a shot.

Just to clarify, it's 70-75 in the corner of their hive, not in the center of their cluster. I don't know what that temp is.



Also, I wasn't really suggesting that you actually try to supply nectar in the form of flowers.  The idea is that you give the foragers an area that is outside of the hive that simulates a warm sunny day where they can bring back food from.   Who knows if it would work or not.



So, are you suggesting that I put loose pollen in the aquarium for them to try to 'forage' from , instead of putting plants? If so, that might work . . . if I had an aquarium. Mind if I borrow yours?  grin
Logged
David LaFerney
Field Bee
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 924


Location: Cookeville, TN - U.S.A.


WWW
« Reply #11 on: February 13, 2010, 07:01:32 PM »

"So, are you suggesting that I put loose pollen in the aquarium for them to try to 'forage' from , instead of putting plants? If so, that might work . . . if I had an aquarium. Mind if I borrow yours?"

I'm suggesting that you feed them whatever you feed them inside of the aquarium, and also give them a way to get outside as well.

Don't mind a bit if you borrow my aquarium.
Logged

"It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so." Samuel Clemens

Putting the "ape" in apiary since 2009.
specialkayme
Field Bee
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 929

Location: Central NC - (somewhere either in Raleigh, Greensboro, or inbetween)


« Reply #12 on: February 13, 2010, 08:18:33 PM »

Lol, I was actually kidding. I'm a little bit too far away to drop by and pick it up. I wish I wasn't though.
Logged
buzzbee
Ken
Administrator
Galactic Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 5424


Location: North Central PA


WWW
« Reply #13 on: February 13, 2010, 08:27:54 PM »

If the bees are covering brood right now they will nt be able to cover new brood. If they are covering brood,when that emerges,they will be able to cover a larger area of brood.They need to cover the brood to keep it warm enough.
I would make sure the outer entrance from outside had a minimal entrance to reduce a cold draft through the OB hive.
Logged
specialkayme
Field Bee
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 929

Location: Central NC - (somewhere either in Raleigh, Greensboro, or inbetween)


« Reply #14 on: February 13, 2010, 08:51:32 PM »

Would the temp alone cause her to stop laying? even if the brood temp is in the 80's?

Would I be better off just closing the entrance and moving it to a warmer part of the room? Or is it necessary for me to keep it connected with the outside?

I know it's warm enough that not all the bees need to cluster around the queen. Usually there are a handful that move up one frame to put nectar in cells, and some move to the very top.
Logged
Finski
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 3928

Location: Finland


« Reply #15 on: February 14, 2010, 12:54:49 PM »

Would the temp alone cause her to stop laying? even if the brood temp is in the 80's?


The length of day , -shorthening and lenghtening, tells to bees and nature is it winter coming or going.

I have feeded to bees patty 20 years, and what first learned was they bees need drinking water to nurse larvae. If they do not get drinking water, larvae will be sick and die.  - And don't tell me about  condensation water.

One thing is that Australians have reseached how to feed bees over their "winter" that bees are ready to hit on canola fields. It did not succeed because hives got bad nosema.

Of course the weather must be so warm that bees can get out off poo in they gut.
If weather is so good, they get water too from outside.


Often the queen lay eggs but bees do not start to feed them.

.

Logged

.
Language barrier NOT included
JP
The Swarm King
Universal Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 11668


Location: Metairie, Louisiana

I like doing cut-outs, but I love catching swarms!


WWW
« Reply #16 on: February 14, 2010, 01:09:54 PM »

Would the temp alone cause her to stop laying? even if the brood temp is in the 80's?


The length of day , -shorthening and lenghtening, tells to bees and nature is it winter coming or going.

I have feeded to bees patty 20 years, and what first learned was they bees need drinking water to nurse larvae. If they do not get drinking water, larvae will be sick and die.  - And don't tell me about  condensation water.

One thing is that Australians have reseached how to feed bees over their "winter" that bees are ready to hit on canola fields. It did not succeed because hives got bad nosema.

Of course the weather must be so warm that bees can get out off poo in they gut.
If weather is so good, they get water too from outside.


Often the queen lay eggs but bees do not start to feed them.

.



First thing my bees at the house do after a cold snap is go for water. I keep a trickle stream going from a hose which they have come to rely on as a consistent water source.

In between cold snaps I know my queens are laying this time of year, getting ready for reproductive swarms and population build ups.


...JP
Logged

"Good friends are as sweet as honey" Winne the Pooh

My pictures can be viewed at http://picasaweb.google.com/pyxicephalus
and
http://picasaweb.google.com/112138792165178452970

My Youtube videos can be viewed here: http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=JPthebeeman&aq=f

My website JPthebeeman.com http://www.jpthebeeman.com/jpthebeeman/
Finski
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 3928

Location: Finland


« Reply #17 on: February 14, 2010, 02:12:31 PM »

.
Often my hives start to lay before cleansing flight even if temp is -10-1 - 5C .
But brood are is only 10 cm wide and porous. 10-20 larvae bees can nurse even if they do not come out.

2 years ago we got so called "back winter" and during one week temp was covered with snow and temps were under freezing point. In all hives all open brood died. It meant a destroy of 2 weeks laying.

Further more in these cases chalk brood bursts out and it takes time several week to get rid off.
Logged

.
Language barrier NOT included
specialkayme
Field Bee
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 929

Location: Central NC - (somewhere either in Raleigh, Greensboro, or inbetween)


« Reply #18 on: February 15, 2010, 10:25:42 AM »

Time for an update:

I would like to start off by thanking everyone for their responses. I have tried my best to incorporate as many of the options as I could.

I took the entrance and reduced it from an inch to a half an inch opening. After I did that, during mid-day yesterday I noticed quite a few little ladies making cleansing flights.

I also moved the OH about 6 feet away from the window (which doesn't have very good insulation) and closer toward the heating vent.I built a pvc pipe that goes all the way along the wall to the window so they can still get out. I also placed it next to (about two feet away from) a 400 watt HID light that I'm using to grow plants. Between the two changes, I noticed the thermometer changed from 74 in the corner to about 80 in the corner. Hopefully that will make it warm enough in there for them.

I'm not sure exactly what to do about the water issue. I'm assuming if I fix everything else, they will go get their own water?

In addition, I showed the pics to a local beekeeper (and legend). He said:
I don't like the color and shape of the cappings themselves.

I would call one of the state inspectors and ask him to look at it. You may not want to put bees back in the empty boxes you have.


So now I am somewhat concerned about diseases (although I hadn't noticed it before).

If anyone has any more comments, I'm very open to them. Or if you need new pictures to help explain what I mean, I would be happy to provide them.

Thanks again.
Logged
buzzbee
Ken
Administrator
Galactic Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 5424


Location: North Central PA


WWW
« Reply #19 on: February 15, 2010, 06:38:29 PM »

Please  post some pics if you can.
Logged
Pages: [1] 2 3  All   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Beemaster's Beekeeping Ring
Previous | Home | Join | Random | Next
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines | Sitemap Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.783 seconds with 22 queries.

Google visited last this page June 22, 2014, 10:06:47 AM
anything