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Author Topic: Glues  (Read 3446 times)
Two Bees
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« on: February 09, 2010, 07:56:02 AM »

I use Titebond III to assemble all of my outer woodenware.   I am considering buying a gallon instead of the smaller bottles that I have been purchasing.

Does glue have a shelf life?
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bassman1977
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« Reply #1 on: February 09, 2010, 08:12:09 AM »

I use Gorilla glue.  I get the smaller bottles.  After about a year of not using it, it's dried up.  I've assembled over 100 boxes and countless frames and have only gone through about 2 bottles of the stuff...and the first bottle was 1/2 full when it dried up.
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« Reply #2 on: February 09, 2010, 08:19:20 AM »

I use Titebond III to assemble all of my outer woodenware.   I am considering buying a gallon instead of the smaller bottles that I have been purchasing.

Does glue have a shelf life?

There's an 800 Number on the glue bottles for customer service, they will answer any question you have. I called the Gorilla Glue folks once with concerns of the toxic components of the glue after it dries, they explained to me that when it cures, the bees will not be subject to any toxins of the glue, I suppose they were already asked about it Smiley
« Last Edit: February 09, 2010, 09:03:43 AM by BeeHopper » Logged
wfuavenger
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« Reply #3 on: February 09, 2010, 08:32:23 AM »

With Gorilla, you have to push out any remaining air it will cause the glue to harden if there is half the container full of air.
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Hemlock
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« Reply #4 on: February 09, 2010, 09:11:06 AM »

I use tight bond III and have noticed that after a year and a half it can have minor granulation.  I think it's due to the air sitting in the bottle after it's half empty.  to much air for the glue not to dry out.  A gallon jug might have the same issue.
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nella
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« Reply #5 on: February 09, 2010, 09:44:56 AM »

I buy tight bond water proof a gallon at a time because it is cheaper. I noticed that it would get e little thicker with age and I just add a little water to thin it out. It works just as good as it did before I added the water to thin it out.
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« Reply #6 on: February 09, 2010, 09:54:43 AM »

i love gorilla glue for almost everything.  do start with a small bottle as you don't need much and it does dry out.  pay attention to the "you don't need much" part.   grin
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« Reply #7 on: February 09, 2010, 11:23:57 AM »

.
Gorilla is polyurethane glue and it hardens with water moisture.

When you have half a bottle, the air part breathes with air pressure and it get moisture.

I have problem that my bottles freeze in autumn when I forget them in my cottage.
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« Reply #8 on: February 09, 2010, 11:31:22 AM »

  Hi ,  Gorilla Glue and Elmer's Ultimate Glue are in my experience , equivalants .  The Elmer's brand is less expensive .  They are a water activated polyurethane , and are marine quality , suitable for boat-building .  Some additional properties are that the "squeeze-out" or excess can be easily carved off with a Knife after it has set .  And if a glued portion needs to be machined , this polyurethane glue is far less damaging to cutting edges like sawblades or planer knives than yellow glue ( carpenters glue ).  If I get some on my hands , it's hard not to , I rub my hands thoroughly with butter , wipe off with paper towel , then wash with dish soap , before it sets .
  When I thin either yellow or white glue with water I have learned to use water that has been sterilized .  I have had some go moldy when I didn't use sterilized water .
  Hope this is useful to some .
  ---Burl--- from one sticky situation to another .
 
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danno
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« Reply #9 on: February 09, 2010, 12:25:36 PM »

I used Titebond III until last year.   On this site someone responded to a  glue thread and stated about a study done by one of the national wood mags.   They found that Titebond II held up to wet locations better than III.   I switched and have had great results with II.   A gallon last me 6-8 months as long as I keep it warm. 
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HAB
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« Reply #10 on: February 09, 2010, 01:09:00 PM »

Wow! Talk about timing.  Just put togather some inner covers and had used my left over Titebond III from last year.  Boy was it in bad shape.  Had lots of simi dried globs that just made a mess.  So I'm off to Ace to get some Titebond II.
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Eshu
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« Reply #11 on: February 09, 2010, 03:02:04 PM »

Storing the polyurethane glue (Gorilla, Titebond III, etc.) bottles upsidedown can give you a little more shelf life.  Just be certain the caps are on tight.  I put them in yogurt containers just in case. 
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Mason
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« Reply #12 on: February 09, 2010, 04:27:33 PM »

Gorilla glue is pretty good stuff but can be hard to manage.  A little too much and it looks like a mess.  Without clamps it can push your parts apart and really leave you in a bind.  FYI: Gorilla Duct tape is really something special too.

For hive parts I have stuck with basic wood workers glue.  If you smear glue on the joints and let it soak in and dry, then glue the parts together there is a much stronger bond.  The stuff is cheap and last forever.  It's likely not AS good as Gorilla Glue or some of the new fancy adhesives but seems to do a good job especially for the cost if you take the time to pre-glue.
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fish_stix
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« Reply #13 on: February 09, 2010, 05:23:23 PM »

I use Titebond II and Titebond III interchangably. If you have more than 50 hives I'll just about guarantee you'll never have to worry about a gallon jug going bad. I wish I could buy 5 gal buckets.  grin
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Two Bees
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« Reply #14 on: February 09, 2010, 05:38:33 PM »

I use Titebond II on the frames since they are out of the weather.  I haven't read that article about II being better than III when it gets wet. 
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wd
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« Reply #15 on: February 09, 2010, 05:53:19 PM »

When placing my first woodenware order, I asked those in the store what glue is recommended? I'll never forget those words, "you're using glue?" with the laughter and silent chuckles until I loaded up left. Never did get answer.
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bassman1977
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« Reply #16 on: February 09, 2010, 07:39:38 PM »

Quote
When placing my first woodenware order, I asked those in the store what glue is recommended? I'll never forget those words, "you're using glue?" with the laughter and silent chuckles until I loaded up left. Never did get answer.

Interesting.  I wonder...does that place deal mainly with commercial beeks?  I would assume that it would be a too slow of a process for most commercial beeks to glue their equipment.  I could be wrong though.  But even still, they should realize that hobbyists and side-liners may be more willing to do glue the woodenware.
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wd
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« Reply #17 on: February 09, 2010, 08:23:04 PM »

Quote
When placing my first woodenware order, I asked those in the store what glue is recommended? I'll never forget those words, "you're using glue?" with the laughter and silent chuckles until I loaded up left. Never did get answer.

Interesting.  I wonder...does that place deal mainly with commercial beeks?  I would assume that it would be a too slow of a process for most commercial beeks to glue their equipment.  I could be wrong though.  But even still, they should realize that hobbyists and side-liners may be more willing to do glue the woodenware.

Yes they do deal with commercial outfits. They also have hobbyist items on display in their store. I  did fail to mention previously that while I didn't get an answer on a brand name for glue it was pointed out in a nice way that I'm not giving the bees and propolis enough credit and I didn't push it any further.

Regardless, I used an all purpose wood glue. I had a few boards warp on hive body's after painting that gave me second thoughts about using glue.
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bassman1977
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« Reply #18 on: February 09, 2010, 08:49:35 PM »

Quote
I did fail to mention previously that while I didn't get an answer on a brand name for glue it was pointed out in a nice way that I'm not giving the bees and propolis enough credit and I didn't push it any further.

It is a good point.  Sometimes when frames do break apart and I am able to get them back together in the hive, I know the propolis will do the trick to fix it up, at least temporarily.  I still like the glue though.  The propolis is just an extra weld to make the equipment stronger.  smiley
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Sparky
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« Reply #19 on: February 09, 2010, 09:14:40 PM »

FYI:  If you smear glue on the joints and let it soak in and dry, then glue the parts together there is a much stronger bond.  The stuff is cheap and last forever.  It's likely not AS good as Gorilla Glue or some of the new fancy adhesives but seems to do a good job especially for the cost if you take the time to pre-glue.

Now that is a good thought, Mason.  The glue on all of the end grains would seal the lumber of the joints that take most of the weather. I like the Titebond II for the frames but lean towards the polyurethane glue for boxes just because it is thicker and stays put without dripping as easily and it expands a bit as it solidifies and fills any imperfections in the joints like caulk.
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Two Bees
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« Reply #20 on: February 09, 2010, 09:34:26 PM »

WD, I've heard a similar question but the flip side................."you're going to use glue AND nails!  You don't really need the nails!"


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wd
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« Reply #21 on: February 09, 2010, 09:38:02 PM »

one of my immediate warpos that I couldn't take apart after gluing. frames won't set on the frame rest





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Sparky
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« Reply #22 on: February 10, 2010, 08:57:46 AM »

one of my immediate warpos that I couldn't take apart after gluing. frames won't set on the frame rest

WOW !! That is a bunch of warpage. Try to lay it with the warped end down and lay a thick water saturated towel on the raw wood inside for at least 4-5 days keeping it plenty wet. It would help if it was hot water. Then turn it with the warped side up and set something HEAVY on top  for a few days if you do not own clamps that could be used to draw it in over a couple of days.
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Two Bees
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« Reply #23 on: February 10, 2010, 01:00:40 PM »

WD, is that a solid pine 1X board or plywood?  I couldn't tell since is has darkened.
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wd
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« Reply #24 on: February 10, 2010, 01:33:32 PM »

a catch 22, I guess or maybe I hit a sensitive nerve when I nailed  it together 

The pieces that bowed are solid pine, this is the worst one. I did use it with shims to hold the frames in place right under the top cover for awhile. I've been letting it soak in all this wonderful rain we've been having.  It's old enough now to take it apart and attempt a repair.
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wd
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« Reply #25 on: February 10, 2010, 10:31:26 PM »

one of my immediate warpos that I couldn't take apart after gluing. frames won't set on the frame rest





Was a little surprised on how strong the joints are as is but managed to pull the piece off today with no damage, a new piece won't fit do to swelling, will give it a few days see if it straightens out any with some pressure.  
« Last Edit: February 10, 2010, 10:45:36 PM by wd » Logged
beee farmer
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« Reply #26 on: February 10, 2010, 11:42:57 PM »

I got several like that... I just added a cleat to the inside to catch the frames... the girls propalize up the lsight crack left when stacking supers
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wd
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« Reply #27 on: February 11, 2010, 12:05:13 AM »

beee farmer,

not that it didn't cross my mind, if it doesn't work, I'll put back together and use as you mentioned but only as a super. thanks.
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fish_stix
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« Reply #28 on: February 11, 2010, 09:45:36 AM »

wd; while it's apart cut several saw kerfs top to bottom on the inside surface maybe 1/4 - 3/8" deep and 1 1/2" apart. Then just nail a cleat on the outside to pull it straight.
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wd
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« Reply #29 on: February 11, 2010, 03:10:54 PM »

So which brand Glue is the preferred choice? Didn't mean to change the topic...



a cleat on the outside, now why didn't I think of that ... is that suck it in or is that out -

Thanks fish_stix

WD, I've heard a similar question but the flip side................."you're going to use glue AND nails!  You don't really need the nails!"

nails or screws seem more secure to me though I see the principle.



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Wynoochee_newbee_guy
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« Reply #30 on: February 11, 2010, 09:23:48 PM »

I only use Glues that are FDA aproved for indirect food contact. Tight bond II is gorilla glue is not but I don't think it will hurt. also price wise Gorilla is to costly. Tight bond II works great in water after its dry I made cutting boards with it that have been through the dish washer hundreds of times.
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« Reply #31 on: February 11, 2010, 11:14:29 PM »

I only use Glues that are FDA aproved for indirect food contact. Tight bond II is gorilla glue is not but I don't think it will hurt. also price wise Gorilla is to costly. Tight bond II works great in water after its dry I made cutting boards with it that have been through the dish washer hundreds of times.

Though I think I'll be sticking with nails / screws one can add laminated beams, plywood, etc to the list of just using some sort of adhesive.
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Wynoochee_newbee_guy
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« Reply #32 on: February 12, 2010, 12:45:36 AM »

oh Just fyi I use both Glue and nails. never just one type
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Two Bees
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« Reply #33 on: February 18, 2010, 07:41:25 AM »

Are 44 screws an overkill when you are using glue?  Of course, 44 nails are a lot as well.

Thoughts?

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« Reply #34 on: February 18, 2010, 09:02:43 AM »

In my boxes, if there's a pre-drilled hole, I stick a nail in it.  I like knowing that it would take a tank to break my boxes and not wonder if it will come apart on me when I have 20,000 bees inside.  It's most likely overkill, but it gives me the warm n' fuzzy.  grin
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