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Author Topic: 'Giant Killer Bees' on Monsterquest  (Read 7069 times)
BULLSEYE BILL
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« on: February 01, 2010, 09:36:35 PM »

Looks like they are going to hype up the old 'killer' bee story on the History channel.  shocked

Wed
2/3
9:00-10:00pm

HISTORY

Thu
2/4
1:01-2:01am

HISTORY

.Sat
2/6
2:00-3:00pm

HISTORY

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JFinLandOLakes
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« Reply #1 on: February 02, 2010, 04:47:36 PM »

I don't see that one on my listing here in Florida with FIOS.

Science Channel did one last week called Mutant Bees it was interesting.
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bee-nuts
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« Reply #2 on: February 02, 2010, 04:50:02 PM »

Thanks for the heads up.  I am always looking for a bee documentary to watch.
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« Reply #3 on: February 02, 2010, 09:21:32 PM »

Thanx Bill!
I'll be watching out for this one!
your friend,
john
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Two Bees
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« Reply #4 on: February 03, 2010, 11:25:02 AM »

A friend of mine who wanted me to put a few hives on his land saw this show and he was really excited.  He continuously referred to Apis Melifera as "killer bees".  Never mentioned that word before the program!  Obviously, he is no longer interested in having "KILLERS" on his property.
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« Reply #5 on: February 04, 2010, 01:32:22 AM »

I was just going to post this! I always watch or dvr the show & was pleasantly surprised tonight.  I wonder how much is "hyped" tho, they do stuff for shock value I'm sure!  Jody
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bee-nuts
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« Reply #6 on: February 04, 2010, 02:15:40 AM »

Just watched the show.  I know much is hype.  However, I sure would like to see some real studies on how cold temps can be before they  freeze to death.  In the show they make it sound like they never clustered before and as if clustering was something new to them.  The cooler they put them in was 23 degrees I believe.  A far cry from twenty below.

Anybody know of some good studies that prove they will die in cold temps?  How do we know they will not slowly but surly cover the lower 48 over the next 100 years.  It also sounds like they are meaner than they used to be.  Is the hybrid meaner than the pure blood? 

It seems to me that if they could survive freezing temps for very long they would have made a foot hold somewhere that is a mild area in the north from a migrating beak.  Queens are superseded all the time.  You cant tell me that AHB has not had chances to populate northern areas in commercial operations coming from the south.
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« Reply #7 on: February 04, 2010, 08:18:11 AM »

I haven't watched the program yet but the local university has an expansive program for the study of honey bees and the Africanized honey bee is of particular interest.  NC State has been tracking the movement north for years and their latest report was that northern movement appears to have stalled.  Researchers are not quite sure why at this point.  While Americanized bees are common in the border states (TX, LA, NM, GA, etc.), I don't believe that "killers" have been confirmed in NC.  Yet! 

Anybody else in NC have reports of killer honey bees?

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« Reply #8 on: February 04, 2010, 09:24:45 AM »

I was able to catch about the last 10 / 15 minutes of the show.  For being AHB, what I questioned in this segment was they were able to drive right up to the hive, lift up the cover, peek in, suit up, set up a smoker, lift cut timber etc with out getting attacked as they are known to do.

Maybe a watered down gentler version of AHB

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kathyp
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« Reply #9 on: February 04, 2010, 10:00:21 AM »

i watched a bit of the 1st half hour.  why did they call them giant killer bees?  they said in the show that they were the same size as other honey bees.

the way they attacked in that abandoned home was pretty special......
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
doak
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« Reply #10 on: February 04, 2010, 10:01:53 AM »

Well, if you take two of the European Breeds and cross them they become hybrid, and aggressive. Been there, done that. I didn't see anything new except about the thing about clustering, nuff said about that. We all know about it.
 The Armadillo is moving north and adapting. Over time these Africanized Bees will too.
The European genes will only help them over come the climate.

I feel quite sure there is a difference in being attacked and stung by the Africanized Bees, opposed to
our home bees, But remember, If one has an allergic reaction to stings it only takes one of anything to do you in.

We also know about the media and Hollywood, both can take it to the limit and  scare the hell out of people that don't know. :)doak
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doak
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« Reply #11 on: February 04, 2010, 10:09:07 AM »

Kathyp, that is the problem with English speech.
It was "Giant" in the title. Finally they used the term, "Giant Swarms".
It doesn't have to be 50 or 60 thousand, if it is a swarm with only 1000 bees in it, That is a giant swarm if it is attacking me. Or maybe even only 100. Will I stop to count? don't think so. rolleyes rolleyes shocked :)doak
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Robo
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« Reply #12 on: February 04, 2010, 11:19:46 AM »

Just watched the show.  I know much is hype.  However, I sure would like to see some real studies on how cold temps can be before they  freeze to death.  In the show they make it sound like they never clustered before and as if clustering was something new to them.  The cooler they put them in was 23 degrees I believe.  a far cry from twenty below.

I only could stand watching it for 15-20 minutes before I changed the channel.   I did catch the portion on putting them in the 23 degree cooler.  The part that got me,  was their statement if they could survive in Las Vegas climate they could survive anywhere... rolleyes   And then that exterminator joker running around Las Vegas at  night looking for places they could nest,  I couldn't take anymore......
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« Reply #13 on: February 04, 2010, 01:16:49 PM »

Let's see.............which title would really get the average person's attention:


GIANT KILLER Bees......................or

Honey Bees with Attitude


GIANT Pumpkins for Sale..............or

Pumpkins for Sale


GIANT Car Sale.............................or

Cars for Sale


It's all in how you package your product!  grin


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bee-nuts
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« Reply #14 on: February 04, 2010, 01:33:39 PM »

The truth was stretched and exaggerated thorough the whole episode.  I watched the whole thing to learn what I could while reading between the lines.  It is depressing that people with no knowledge will watch it and have an un-realistic view of the situation.  I hope someone will make a documentary that is fair to the beekeeper and the bee and does not use terms that are used just to raise ratings and cause fear like Giant Monster Swarms of Killer Bees.  It is the same thing as calling some idiot with and IQ of 85 the Master Mind behind a crime.  You can not watch TV, Read a Newspaper, or consume just about any media without filtering out the propaganda that is used to strike fear, hate, or whatever the author is doing to try to influence you or get ratings.  

That said, you can not ignore the real threat these bees posses.  I hope science can find what genes make them dominant and turn it around so the euros wipe out the African genes and not the other way around or at least are not so susceptible.  I believe without the presence of euro honeybees that the killer bee would not move much beyond where it is but that the fact that they have a bridge to use (the established Euros) that it will happen.  I hope I am wrong or that it takes hundred of years.

Can someone answer definitively  if the AHB are more aggressive because of being hybrid?  Got any link to an article?  

I think this is one area where we will have to turn to science and will not be allowed to let nature take its course if we want to preserve our strain of honeybee.  I think with enough money and research a poison or something could be developed that would oly target the ahb genes.

It frustrating, that for sure.
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doak
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« Reply #15 on: February 04, 2010, 02:08:00 PM »

If you take a colony of Italian and one of Corneal en and cross these, you have a hybrid, you also have a more aggressive bee than either of the other two. Does this answer your question?
Also the AHB came from the pure African breed "which is aggressive to begin with" crossed with the European bee, which in any one of the breed's  in pure form is docile.
The African aggressiveness genes is dominate over the  European gentleness genes.
This should not be that hard to under stand. If we want to rear queens we are surly going to pick our most gentle colony to rear a queen from, if it is also a productive colony.
If you have an aggressive colony in your bee yard that re queening doesn't fix, then you will want to move that colony far far away from your breeding grounds, If you are going to rear gentle strands.

I am also against calling these AHB's (KILLER) bees.
Any one who is allergic to bee stings can die from only one sting from a gentle strand.
We, the beekeepers should let people know some of these things. We are not like the Media, we are not in it for ratings.

Yes, we should not take the subject lightly either.

The question of whether  they can adapt to cold climates, That answer should be simple. They have some of the European genes don't they? Who's trying to fool who?
 :)doak
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bee-nuts
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« Reply #16 on: February 04, 2010, 02:38:27 PM »

If you take a colony of Italian and one of Corneal en and cross these, you have a hybrid, you also have a more aggressive bee than either of the other two. Does this answer your question?
Also the AHB came from the pure African breed "which is aggressive to begin with" crossed with the European bee, which in any one of the breed's  in pure form is docile.
The African aggressiveness genes is dominate over the  European gentleness genes.
This should not be that hard to under stand. If we want to rear queens we are surly going to pick our most gentle colony to rear a queen from, if it is also a productive colony.
If you have an aggressive colony in your bee yard that re queening doesn't fix, then you will want to move that colony far far away from your breeding grounds, If you are going to rear gentle strands.

I am also against calling these AHB's (KILLER) bees.
Any one who is allergic to bee stings can die from only one sting from a gentle strand.
We, the beekeepers should let people know some of these things. We are not like the Media, we are not in it for ratings.

Yes, we should not take the subject lightly either.

The question of whether  they can adapt to cold climates, That answer should be simple. They have some of the European genes don't they? Who's trying to fool who?
 :)doak

I Understand that crossing two strains causes the offspring to be more aggressive.  What I want to know is why.  Is there more than one combination of genes that make the bees aggressive.  Does anyone have a theory on what causes the aggression.  If you crossed tow gentle breeds of dog you would not expect a aggressive dog would you?  I am interested in the reason behind the trait and what brings it out in hybrids.  Knowing something is one thing and understanding it is another.

I have read that the ahb seems to have calmed down some in south america and are more manageable then before.  Is it from breeding for less aggressive behavior or that they are more pure African honeybees now and the hybrid increased aggression has decreased because of being less hybrid.  I have no idea what the facts are and am really interested in the science science behind it.
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The moment a person forms a theory, his imagination sees in every object only the traits which favor that theory

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doak
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« Reply #17 on: February 04, 2010, 02:51:10 PM »

Very good point. I may be wrong, if we have got that far fully understanding the gene bank I haven't found anything on it. Although I have searched for it.
 May be if we could get those "jerks" to quit using so many pesticides we could rear enough European bees and release them into the wild to over come the AHB  increase. :)doak
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wd
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« Reply #18 on: February 04, 2010, 03:05:55 PM »

bee-nuts,

I've read numerous reports and various information for over a decade now, I'm certainly not on expert on the matter but I am under impression that it helps over time to breed with gentle strains, re-queen our hives etc.

May I suggest to ask your question(s) here
http://www.americanbeejournal.com/site/epage/79431_828.htm

-

http://entnemdept.ufl.edu/creatures/misc/bees/ahb.htm

http://entoplp.okstate.edu/ahb/



 

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bee-nuts
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« Reply #19 on: February 04, 2010, 04:06:40 PM »

bee-nuts,

I've read numerous reports and various information for over a decade now, I'm certainly not on expert on the matter but I am under impression that it helps over time to breed with gentle strains, re-queen our hives etc.

May I suggest to ask your question(s) here
http://www.americanbeejournal.com/site/epage/79431_828.htm

-

http://entnemdept.ufl.edu/creatures/misc/bees/ahb.htm

http://entoplp.okstate.edu/ahb/



 




Thank you so much for the links.  I ust started reading them and want to thank you before I forget.
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The moment a person forms a theory, his imagination sees in every object only the traits which favor that theory

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