Need Bees Removed?
International
Beekeeping Forums
April 20, 2014, 07:30:07 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
News: 24/7 Ventrilo Voice chat -click for instructions and free software here
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar bee removal Login Register Chat  

Pages: 1 [2]  All   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Health care bill dead?  (Read 4484 times)
Bigeddie
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 100

Location: Catawba,Wisconsin


« Reply #20 on: February 02, 2010, 07:31:32 PM »

Why is it that anyone would think the Govt. should furnish their health care? If we need the govt. for health insurance why not homeowners ins., auto ins. life ins.ect. ect.?
I'm in a group with about 12,000 christians and we insure each other at very low cost (120.00 for a single person per mo.) but its not called insurance so if that bill passed we would have to get govt. insurance or be fined. I don't want the govt. crap and I hope the bill is dead and stays dead.
Mason you got it exactly right on all points!
Logged

God bless Us all!!
homer
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 294

Location: Smithfield, Utah


« Reply #21 on: February 07, 2010, 10:15:51 PM »

If anyone wants to see how well Govt. run insurance works... just go spend a few weeks in Canada.  Anytime someone gets the sniffles they just go to the ER and if you really need a procedure or test done quickly.. you go to the states to get it done.
Logged
ONTARIO BEEKEEPER
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 60


Location: Canton, Ontario


WWW
« Reply #22 on: February 07, 2010, 11:24:12 PM »

"If anyone wants to see how well Govt. run insurance works... just go spend a few weeks in Canada.  Anytime someone gets the sniffles they just go to the ER and if you really need a procedure or test done quickly.. you go to the states to get it done."


 I'm Canadian, and yes you do have to live here first hand to see how great our health care system is.  Last July my wife had a serious injury, within 15 minutes she had a CT scan which was then followed by an MRI scan. After a half hour she was air lifted from our small town to a major city hospital.  She spent 2 weeks in the ICU with around the clock care. She was hospitalized from July 23rd to Nov 18th, and has since been going to re-hab twice a week, ( her recovery is a miracle, she is doing very well ). Her care has been top notch every step of the way. The whole experience has left me in utter gratitude for the  health care system we have.

 Also, my mother just got her knee done with no long wait.
Our system is not perfect, but I can tell you first hand that when you need it, its there for everyone.
Logged
kathyp
Universal Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 14810


Location: boring, oregon


« Reply #23 on: February 07, 2010, 11:52:53 PM »

you were fortunate that you live where that care is available.  i think canada does a reasonably good  job with their health care.  they are only covering 23 or so million people.

any of us who have worked medicine on the northern border have seen our share of canadian patients.  often they are sent over by the canadian health system because the care they need is not available.  we also have many who come over because things like MRIs and other tests are not available in short order.  after all, if you doc is worried that your symptoms might indicate a brain tumor, and you can't get an MRI for 6 weeks, that's pretty much an eternity to you.

i don't think the canadian health care system is the right one to look at if you are looking at what national health care would be like here.  23 million is a good size city down here.  besides, it's not really about health care here.  it's about control.  you only need to look at the over 2000 pages of new crap in that bill to know it had nothing to do with health care.
Logged

.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
ONTARIO BEEKEEPER
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 60


Location: Canton, Ontario


WWW
« Reply #24 on: February 08, 2010, 09:38:26 AM »

- Not that its much of a difference but our population is over 32 million.
- There is no waiting for MRI's etc if it is urgent ( maybe 10-15 years ago there was ) pretty well every hospital has a MRI and CT machine
- Minimum acceptable wait periods have been legislated, after which the system will send you somewhere to have it done
- Seeing our system work first hand, I wish every Country could have something similar
- If it can be done on a scale of 32 million why not 64 million or 250 million people like in the U.S? 
Logged
kathyp
Universal Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 14810


Location: boring, oregon


« Reply #25 on: February 08, 2010, 10:08:05 AM »

well, the brits can't do it.  i think we would run into the same problem they do.  aging population not paying into the system and with health problems, large immigrant population both not paying and with more health problems, and no way to maintain the level of health care that all of us are used to. remember, we already have about 40% of the population that pays no taxes and that number is about to go up if "the one" gets his new tax stuff through. 

contrary to the press hype and the lib hand wringing, no one goes without health care in this country.  we do have some things we need to work on, like cost of insurance for those who want it.

i found this page of state mandates.  if you want to see how government interference is already costing you, this is interesting.

http://www.cahi.org/cahi_contents/resources/pdf/HealthInsuranceMandates2008.pdf

OB you and other cultures have made a choice to have your government provide for you.  we...so far, have made a different choice.

the reason the left in this country embraces every big government program including health care is not that they are compassionate, loving people.  they believe that government programs = government control and that's a good thing.  they believe that government does a better job of running things and making decisions than the individual does.  this health care program is just another example.  there are a few things we need to fix.  it doesn't take over 2000 pages of regulations and programs to do it.  it doesn't take creating a monstrous new bureaucracy to do it.

the left is socialist.  some don't even hide it.  the so called "progressives" (hard left) have had socialism as  their goal for 100 years.  unfortunately, we have allowed our country to slide that direction.  for some reason, we think if europe does it, we should to.  



Logged

.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
BeeHopper
Queen Bee
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1122

Location: Hopelessly Lost


« Reply #26 on: February 08, 2010, 10:09:24 AM »

- Not that its much of a difference but our population is over 32 million.
- There is no waiting for MRI's etc if it is urgent ( maybe 10-15 years ago there was ) pretty well every hospital has a MRI and CT machine
- Minimum acceptable wait periods have been legislated, after which the system will send you somewhere to have it done
- Seeing our system work first hand, I wish every Country could have something similar
- If it can be done on a scale of 32 million why not 64 million or 250 million people like in the U.S?  


The US Government SUCKS at keeping an EYE on things ( the Gov sucks at almost everything ) millions and billions are wasted in fraud and oversight. Remember the SEC, they're supposed to keep an eye on Fannie May and Freddie Mac, but instead looked the other way, the same thing will happen in total government healthcare, we cannot afford it.
Logged
kathyp
Universal Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 14810


Location: boring, oregon


« Reply #27 on: February 08, 2010, 10:12:32 AM »

remember, it was congress ordering changes in the way that banks considered loans that got this housing thing started.  F&F shouldn't even exist, but since they do, they really did what they are mandated to do.  they guaranteed the higher risk loans so that banks would loan to people who shouldn't have had loans in the first place.

remember also that it was those same congress members who lied to us and told us F&F were fine and in no danger of collapsing. 
Logged

.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
BeeHopper
Queen Bee
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1122

Location: Hopelessly Lost


« Reply #28 on: February 08, 2010, 10:24:06 AM »

remember, it was congress ordering changes in the way that banks considered loans that got this housing thing started.  F&F shouldn't even exist, but since they do, they really did what they are mandated to do.  they guaranteed the higher risk loans so that banks would loan to people who shouldn't have had loans in the first place.

remember also that it was those same congress members who lied to us and told us F&F were fine and in no danger of collapsing.  

That is where the SEC was supposed to come in say say otherwise, they were dishonest too !  They should have backed GWB and John McCain when they saw the ills of F & F, Mandate or Not, the Watchdog is supposed to Bark, they did not.
Logged
kathyp
Universal Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 14810


Location: boring, oregon


« Reply #29 on: February 08, 2010, 11:33:45 AM »

Quote
They should have backed GWB and John McCain when they saw the ills of F & F


the probably had a role but less with F&F and more with the banks that were making the loans.  problem is, congress has gotten so all powerful that no one goes against them.  those who sat on the finance and banking committee were the ones responsible for getting the mess started.

BTW it happened under carter then again under clinton.  it was the community reinvestment act pushed by congress.  do you not remember bush trying to get congress to do something about F&F

http://www.bucksright.com/bush-proposed-fannie-mae-freddie-mac-supervision-in-2003-1141

this site is admittedly biased, but you can check the time line.  one site has bush commenting on F&F problems 17 times, but it didn't list the times, so i didn't list the site.  you can google info.


« Last Edit: February 08, 2010, 09:08:55 PM by kathyp » Logged

.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
homer
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 294

Location: Smithfield, Utah


« Reply #30 on: February 08, 2010, 09:03:00 PM »

- There is no waiting for MRI's etc if it is urgent ( maybe 10-15 years ago there was ) pretty well every hospital has a MRI and CT machine

Point taken... I lived in Toronto for a few years from 1999-2001.  Thanks for the correction!  I knew lots of folks that were sure frustrated about it back then, but I'm glad that it si better now!  Sorry for making a statement that I didn't verify. Smiley
Logged
alfred
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 399


Location: Loveland Colorado USA


WWW
« Reply #31 on: February 13, 2010, 12:37:22 PM »

Tell it like it is John!...

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/thu-february-11-2010/the-apparent-trap
Logged
kathyp
Universal Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 14810


Location: boring, oregon


« Reply #32 on: February 13, 2010, 06:22:34 PM »

if  states want to do health care, that is certainly something they can do.  we should look closely at hawaii and other states that are paying for expanded health care and see how it's working.  it SHOULD NOT be a federally mandated or paid for program.

http://www.nytimes.com/1993/05/19/us/Hawaii-health-care-is-called-a-model-for-us.html?sec=health&&scp=2&sq=hawaii%20health%20care&st=cse

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,440561,00.html

http://www.heritage.org/research/socialsecurity/hl496.cfm

hawaii does not have universal health care.  it has employer mandated health care.  that's why they tried the universal care for kids and couldn't afford it.
Logged

.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
alfred
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 399


Location: Loveland Colorado USA


WWW
« Reply #33 on: February 14, 2010, 12:06:03 PM »

I think that the most pertinent part of the segment was near the beginning, how many republicans and conservatives were afraid of talks. Then later how the representatives questioned were so ill informed and so fixated on their dogmatic stance, a bad combination.

I agree that we should look at the states and other countries that are doing other programs and evaluate what works and what doesn't and then look at what we need and then come up with a solution that combines all of the info available. What is happenning now is two camps that are dead set against each other and so nothing useful is getting done simply status quo. the only thing that has changed is that fewer are covered and the insurance companies just posted record profits.
Logged
kathyp
Universal Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 14810


Location: boring, oregon


« Reply #34 on: February 14, 2010, 12:45:28 PM »

it is a fundamental difference in philosophy that puts us against each other.  one side believes that it is the government job to take care of people.  the other believes it is the individuals job to care for themselves.  i fall into the 2nd camp  grin

if you have been watching the problems in europe, that should be reason enough to not want to grow government.  

government can not "provide" anything without first taking from others.  that is the 1st tenets of socialism.  if you can show me where this has worked to make life better for all, where it has brought the standard of living, care, and the economy up, i'd be pleased to see it.

while the idea of -free- is attractive, it is a myth.  

this is not to say that we don't have some problems with the way our health care is paid for.  we do.  if we are serious about keeping our standards of care and improving access for all, we need to address the real problems.  i can assure you that fixing health care will not involve the government running it.
Logged

.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
homer
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 294

Location: Smithfield, Utah


« Reply #35 on: February 14, 2010, 01:39:54 PM »


government can not "provide" anything without first taking from others.  that is the 1st tenets of socialism.  if you can show me where this has worked to make life better for all, where it has brought the standard of living, care, and the economy up, i'd be pleased to see it.

while the idea of -free- is attractive, it is a myth.  


AMEN to that!  Couldn't be said any better!  Thanks for your wise words!!!!!!!
Logged
dragonfly
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 468

Location: 30 mi west of DFW, Tx


« Reply #36 on: February 17, 2010, 12:22:08 PM »

i think the current bill is dead.  my hope is that they will start over.  there are things that need to be done.  

Exactly. There are several measures that could help make health care more affordable, but they require placing more responsibility on individuals, and I don't know if politicians have the guts or desire to do it, and I don't think many citizens are willing to take the responsibility.
Logged
Pages: 1 [2]  All   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Beemaster's Beekeeping Ring
Previous | Home | Join | Random | Next
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines | Sitemap Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.378 seconds with 22 queries.

Google visited last this page February 23, 2014, 04:59:45 AM
anything