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Author Topic: AAAHHHH!!...Stupid condensation!  (Read 7061 times)
Hemlock
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« on: January 16, 2010, 10:55:45 AM »

Now I'm frustrated.  Last year this one hive had water trickling out of the hive along the solid BB.  SO I added a SBB, a vented top box, and replaced just about all the old wooden ware in '09.  Yet still there is condensation dripping out of the hive.  Now it comes off of the sheet of luan i used to close off the SBB.  The vent box has 9, 1.5" screened holes in it.  One was left open.  I figured that should be enough air movement.  I guess I'm wrong.

Opinions anyone.


Dripping out from beneath the SBB.


Top vent w/ duct tape baffles.  Very high tech.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2010, 11:13:57 AM by Hemlock » Logged
Finski
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« Reply #1 on: January 16, 2010, 11:35:10 AM »

.
If you have not insulation on the inned cover, it is cool and the warm air condensates to the cool surface.

You cannot keep hive open like chimney. It is no a purpose.

The moisture should leade out of hive, not into the loft.

Make a round hole into front wall or a square hole in upper edge of the box.

Then put the hive slanting forwards that condensated and rain water drills out via entrance.
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Hemlock
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« Reply #2 on: January 16, 2010, 11:48:48 AM »

Finski,

I am placing styrofoam in the telescoping cover today.  However,  I found NO water in or on the telescoping cover, inner cover, or tops of the frame where the bees are.  I am not sure at all which surface is causing the condensation.  Last year I found the telescoping cover & inner cover saturated with water.  Yet, they are both now dry.  Go figure.

Thanks so much.
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iddee
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« Reply #3 on: January 16, 2010, 12:07:40 PM »

I'm not a wood worker, so I have to ask. Does luan have a slick, sealed surface? If so, that's where your water forms. Use nothing but raw wood surface in a hive and you may stop the condensation.
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« Reply #4 on: January 16, 2010, 12:10:31 PM »

you will have some moisture in the hive.  living things create it.  it's in everything from their droppings to their expirations.  

if you tip the hive so that the moisture runs down the sides and out the bottom, you have done what you can do.  

one thing to consider for next year is whether or not you are feeding syrup to late into the season, and is it the right concentration.  if the bees have a lot of uncapped stores and nectar thin syrup stored, you'll have more of a moisture problem.  you might also consider putting some dry sugar on next year.  it does help absorb moisture and it's there for them if they need it.
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Finski
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« Reply #5 on: January 16, 2010, 12:34:27 PM »

Finski,

I am placing styrofoam in the telescoping cover today.  However,  I found NO water in or on the telescoping cover, inner cover, or tops of the frame where the bees are.  I am not sure at all which surface is causing the condensation.  Last year I found the telescoping cover & inner cover saturated with water.  Yet, they are both now dry.  Go figure.

Thanks so much.

With my 47 years experience, I do not know what then...
However, the hive's idea is protect the colony from weather and cold, and it is not meant "drum drier" .

Some condensated water in the hive bottom is natural. It is not poison.

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Finski
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« Reply #6 on: January 16, 2010, 12:38:39 PM »


  if the bees have a lot of uncapped stores and nectar thin syrup stored, you'll have more of a moisture problem.  

If it is so, the store takes moisture from air and it start to ferment.

The hive shoud be feeded full, otherwise bees do not cap cells.
Give to then so much 63% syrup as thei take, and then stop feeding and playing with dry sugar.
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rdy-b
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« Reply #7 on: January 16, 2010, 01:04:21 PM »

Not shure i got this right but you said it was coming off the sheet of luana you use to block the screened bottom with -IF the condensation is from the bottom of the sheet then it is not really in the hive is it -it is winter there is going to be some condensation -many reasons why -controlling it is your goal you cant prevent it nor do you want to prevent it completely-RDY-B
 Wink  http://beenatural.wordpress.com/observations/condensation/
« Last Edit: January 16, 2010, 01:18:27 PM by rdy-b » Logged
kathyp
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« Reply #8 on: January 16, 2010, 01:06:16 PM »

finski, i live in a very wet climate.  the dry sugar takes a lot of the moisture.  if they need it, it's there, but my main reason for using it is that it helps with that moisture that seems to creep in with the sideways rain. smiley
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
Hemlock
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« Reply #9 on: January 16, 2010, 01:30:12 PM »

iddee,
Luan is sanded but unfinished on both sides.  Basically it's 1/8 inch plywood.

Kathyp,
I stopped feeding 2:1 syrup in the beginning of November.  Yes there was some uncapped honey at that time.  Can one put dry sugar on now?  

Finski,
It doesn't seem like a lot of water now but I still have a month & a half of clustering.  If it dries up with the current milder weather the I'll stop worrying.

rdy-b,
I put a sheet of luan under the SBB.  Condensation is dripping off the frames down through the SBB onto the luan.  The water then runs out the back of the hive.  
That's a good point about controlling it completely.  My experience is limited and I assume there should be no puddling of water.  I assume this because my other hive is dry as a bone.  Always has been.  It has always been a strong & healthy colony.  However, the condensation prone colony is always having problems.  I figured that any condensation is then bad.  
Am I wrong?
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Finski
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« Reply #10 on: January 16, 2010, 01:32:06 PM »

finski, i live in a very wet climate.  the dry sugar takes a lot of the moisture.


I know so much these things that that is not true. I was gojng to nonsence but I did not say.

But I know too that American hobby beekeeper are mad to feed sugar all year around, what ever the reason is.  

yes, Boring is now moist place. 14 days and all rainy, but sugar is not solution to moisture.
Annual rain is something 700 mm. It is not much.
We have 600-700 mm, so it the same.

http://www.weatherforyou.com/weather/oregon/boring.html


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kathyp
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« Reply #11 on: January 16, 2010, 01:33:22 PM »

i guess i'm not to horrible an american hobby beekeeper.  i don't feed sugar all year  grin
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #12 on: January 16, 2010, 01:43:38 PM »

.
One thing in Britain is that hobbyist try to over winter too small bee colonies.
It makes a lot troubles  even to experienced beekeepers.

But British beekeeprs are eager to shake bees, if they do not know what to do. Shake them!
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wfuavenger
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« Reply #13 on: January 16, 2010, 03:55:50 PM »

experiment for you:

If you are worried about moisture do what I do in my gun safe, put a panty hose leg about 8" long filled with white rice and tied off in a knot above the top cover. It sucks the moisture right out of the air. remember to throw it away after about a month or two or it will get a little nasty. Give it a try. Who knows, it might work!

Or you could spread out the rice in a thin layer on the board you use to cover the SBB.
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Finski
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« Reply #14 on: January 16, 2010, 04:59:14 PM »

.
Remember, when bees are in nature hole, they have  not needed nor rice or sugar.
Fool gang.

They need only peace to sleep their winter over. You just kill your hives disturb all the time their wintersleep.
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kathyp
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« Reply #15 on: January 16, 2010, 06:05:10 PM »

finski, you should come to buds this year and fix our beekeeping  grin
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
wfuavenger
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« Reply #16 on: January 16, 2010, 07:11:20 PM »

.
Remember, when bees are in nature hole, they have  not needed nor rice or sugar.
Fool gang.

They need only peace to sleep their winter over. You just kill your hives disturb all the time their wintersleep.

But they are not in a natural hole. We have put them in a box, in perfect orders and rows. It is not even close, we have a big difference in where they naturaly live and where we put them. Therefore, we have to assist every now and then because we have put them into something "not natural" and the bees cannot build and design it on their own as we have not let them!!!
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Hemlock
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« Reply #17 on: January 16, 2010, 07:30:41 PM »

OK then...
This is what I'll do
1). Put sugar on top of the inner cover
2). Insulate the T-cover with styrofoam
3). Open the closed SBB a half inch to aid in circulation.

Does anyone see a landmine in this list?

Thanks to all of you.
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rdy-b
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« Reply #18 on: January 16, 2010, 08:42:36 PM »

if you are going to do the dry sugar-remove inercover-place news papper and sugar on top barswith feed rim-like this

 
winter feeding
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« Reply #19 on: January 16, 2010, 09:52:50 PM »

Finski has spoken of this before.
The moisture will condense on the coldest part of the hive first. We need to control which is coldest.
If the top is better insulated than the sides,it will condense on the sides and run to the bottom board. then it will run down and not drip on the bees. Tilt the hive slightly so the moisture runs out the front of the bottom board to the outside where it will do no harm.Opening the hive too much may not kill them from cold,but possibly early starvation,since the bees will consume more of their stores to stay warm.If it is too cold to move to new stores after consuming what is under the cluster,they may stave with many stores still in the hive.
 
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