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Author Topic: Haiti  (Read 4317 times)
fish_stix
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« Reply #20 on: January 16, 2010, 10:36:49 PM »

Mick; if we are so lazy and have such dreadful governments why are all these millions of people still trying to come here? You need to engage your brain and get the facts straight before whining about someone else's country. Many of us worked the aftermath of Katrina and numerous other disasters; we have the facts straight, you don't.
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mick
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« Reply #21 on: January 18, 2010, 02:31:55 AM »

You are wrong. Id say about 80% of what I know about the disgrace that took place is from the horses mouth. 30%TV interviews and footage, 20% radio interviews and 50% one on one chat via internet with people who were there.  Its abysmal that some people in power and the public knew no money was being spent on levy maintenance yet it went on year after year.

The people who risk their lives to come here are largely educated and comparatively wealthy in their own countries. They pay people smugglers to come to paradise. You get poor ignorant desperate people whose idea of paradise is anywhere else on earth. You just happen to be closest.

I just wonder how many are terrorists? How many sleepers are there in your country as a result of the failure of your government to secure its borders. When the wars over it will be the fear of the terror within that will fuel your economy. Buy shares in the security sector if you have some cash.

You are a lazy bunch, what percentage of the population voted last time? If you cant be bothered to tick a box, what hope is there. You get the prize for making war for the last 50 years though, and for owing more money than you can print. Despite all that its a nice place full of many good people.

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Scadsobees
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« Reply #22 on: January 18, 2010, 07:58:20 AM »

I just wonder how many are terrorists? How many sleepers are there in your country as a result of the failure of your government to secure its borders.
...
You are a lazy bunch, what percentage of the population voted last time? If you cant be bothered to tick a box, what hope is there. You get the prize for making war for the last 50 years though, and for owing more money than you can print. Despite all that its a nice place full of many good people.

Pretty harsh judgement for a country founded partially on the principle related in the poem on the Statue of Liberty
"Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore,
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

As the great-great-great ....grandchild of tired, poor, huddled masses, I say we can't just throw that out and lock ourselves down.  As conservative as I may be and wanting more impermiable borders, there still has to be a balance with principles.  I have a feeling more than a few haitians will finally get their dreams and be heading north in the future.  And I wish them the best here as long as they are respectful of us as well.

Rick
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reinbeau
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« Reply #23 on: January 18, 2010, 09:56:26 AM »

You are wrong. Id say about 80% of what I know about the disgrace that took place is from the horses mouth. 30%TV interviews and footage, 20% radio interviews and 50% one on one chat via internet with people who were there.  Its abysmal that some people in power and the public knew no money was being spent on levy maintenance yet it went on year after year.

The people who risk their lives to come here are largely educated and comparatively wealthy in their own countries. They pay people smugglers to come to paradise. You get poor ignorant desperate people whose idea of paradise is anywhere else on earth. You just happen to be closest.

I just wonder how many are terrorists? How many sleepers are there in your country as a result of the failure of your government to secure its borders. When the wars over it will be the fear of the terror within that will fuel your economy. Buy shares in the security sector if you have some cash.

You are a lazy bunch, what percentage of the population voted last time? If you cant be bothered to tick a box, what hope is there. You get the prize for making war for the last 50 years though, and for owing more money than you can print. Despite all that its a nice place full of many good people.


You know something, Mick?  You are an ignorant, judgemental fool and you think you know everything about our country when actually you know very little.  I've come to realize you are incapable of discussing anything without trying to prove how superior you are - and truthfully, you aren't.  At this point I'd like to block your posts completely from my view.
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eivindm
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« Reply #24 on: January 18, 2010, 10:02:27 AM »

I'm neither from the USA or Australia; but this thread has a tone that is getting way past polite, and I don't like they way this thread is heading. 

This is to all the authors in this thread: Please read your post twice before you reply to anything in this thread.
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reinbeau
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« Reply #25 on: January 18, 2010, 10:04:07 AM »

I agree and I apologize, but Mick has taken his insults of the United States and the people who live here way too far.
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kathyp
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« Reply #26 on: January 18, 2010, 10:15:24 AM »

Australia gets upscale immigrants because they have a strict immigration policy.  they don't take the tired and poor.  they take the educated and employable.  that's ok.  maybe that's smart.  as we increase our entitlement programs, we probably will get more people coming here looking for a handout rather than an opportunity.  it surely has happened in European countries with open immigration and generous welfare.

mick, your country beat us to European social welfare.  while we are not far behind you, i think you have no room to talk.  


you are right about the levee maintenance.  the money was spent on everything but.  beyond that, the local response and planning was abysmal.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2010, 10:31:02 AM by kathyp » Logged

.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #27 on: January 18, 2010, 01:29:28 PM »

Quote
I find it somewhat disturbing to see in the media that the US Govt seems to have reacted to this tragedy quicker than it did for Katrina.

You just can't fix stupid.  Katrina did not even hit New Orleans but rather 100 miles east in Mississippi.  The damage in N.O. was a man made disaster because the money was not used to upgrade the levies.  Everyone in New Orleans knew it was going to happen and their local government did nothing about it.  Their whole plan was to have the Feds bail them out.  The people who were stranded in New Orleans by and large chose to stay.  People destroyed the Super Dome not Katrina.

The Feds can not just come rolling into state without being asked to by the state.  We like it that way.  Louisiana is to blame for the damage in New Orleans and slow response of the feds.  Not George Bush. 

 
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« Reply #28 on: January 18, 2010, 05:11:43 PM »

As far as the government not reacting, people were warned to get out of low lying areas for 10 days. Guess what,they said why the government will save me ,they always do. in these times of disaster ,rescuers cannot respond during these storms.
As far as Fema,they can not respond until requested by the states if I remember correctly.Guess what,Louisiana thought they were wrong on the forecast again. And people that lived in New Orleans were told the levees would probably be topped by a storm of this magnitude.So I guess they decided to stay anyway.I guess that boils down to personal responsibilty.
  As  far as responding to Haiti disaster,what initially arrived would have been called a poor response if the scenario happened here. Some things just take time to start moving.Lets give this a rest and let foreign nations just be glad we still send help abroad at all.

Heres how the French respond.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/01/18/french-minister-rips-us-t_n_427366.html
Guess we should have waited for the French to come and run the show.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2010, 06:17:36 PM by buzzbee » Logged
iddee
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« Reply #29 on: January 18, 2010, 07:14:21 PM »

It's sad to say, but after seeing the actions of N.O. during Katrina, seeing the results of our open borders, the expanding welfare system and other government handouts, especially the bank and auto bailouts, acorn, and the 2008 election, I have to think about agreeing with Mick. Our country is pathetic. My feelings are that it won't be a democracy in another 20 to 30 years. The trash is beginning to outnumber the producers.
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« Reply #30 on: January 18, 2010, 09:50:12 PM »

Guess I'll check my ticket, I may be on the wrong boat. ;)doak
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doak
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« Reply #31 on: January 18, 2010, 10:28:42 PM »

But those People across the BIG pond sure like our forums. shocked rolleyes Smiley ;)doak
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mick
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« Reply #32 on: January 19, 2010, 03:19:23 AM »

Its not as easy to be a bludger here as it used to be. Once upon a time you could be on welfare for life for the ole fake back etc. dribble at job interviews and be unemployed for life if you wanted to be. It was easier then because the cost of living was low. Now welfare is hard to live off unless you are one of those single mums with 5 kids to 6 fathers or worse, a family of 7 that earns 500 a week and 2 grand in support payments. Because the unemployment rate has been below 5% for nearly a decade, the price of housing is very high now, overinflated by 100% actually, but this means renting on welfare is very hard to afford. So that has encouraged many to work because they have to, but its also led to around 40,000 homelss each night in a city of 3 million. This is unacceptable, IMO but a lot are hard core street people now. I think they actually like it.

I cant think of any social policy we have that could be frowned upon or seen as costly.

Our Aboriginal situation is pretty much a disgrace though. $ billion spent in the last 10 years but most of em still live in he dirt and die before the age of 45.

Sure we spend 200 grand to build a family a house, but what can you do when they live in the yard and burn the joint piece by piece for firewood?

I dont see how anyone can be offended by anything that is posted here as nothing is directed at anyone in particular, least of all a casual reader so bored as to follow the post.

I seem to recall something about "Freedom of speech" anyway.

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« Reply #33 on: January 19, 2010, 09:27:22 AM »

Mick:

I was just about to yell at you when I read this, you have been a grumpy cuss lately and that there is no FREEDOM OF SPEECH in the forum, every time I change a word in the word filter, or remove anyone's posts for any reason, no freedom of speech here - it is a social community, much like a gated community that tells you that your grass must be under 4 inches high and mail boxes at the curb -  We chat within rules that have nothing to do with ANY GOVERNMENTS LAWS, but laws that conform to the Ideals we set forth.

Don't get Beemaster Forum mixed up with Washington, DC Mick.

There was so much of what you said about the WELFARE MULTI-GENERATIONAL FAMILIES that have never learned that dollars are things that are earned, not something the government sends to Mom and GrandMa's Bank and food cards.  We have the same thing on many topics, except we are12 times larger in population and the problem isn't fully relative to size, it is relative to available jobs and a willingness to work.

Got to go, but thought I'd cover the speech thing, not only for you, but all members unclear about that.

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« Reply #34 on: January 19, 2010, 10:26:17 AM »

Aw Mick, what'd you say to get kicked in the freckle  huh

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Mason
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« Reply #35 on: January 19, 2010, 11:45:24 AM »

GO SCOTT GO!!!
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reinbeau
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« Reply #36 on: January 19, 2010, 03:53:43 PM »

GO SCOTT GO!!!
That right, come on, The Scott Heard Round the World!
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mick
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« Reply #37 on: January 20, 2010, 03:43:51 AM »

You call me grumpy when you sound like a trailer park owner? (Dallas excepted).

From Beemaster:

Mick, this is why I'm the Admin. and you are a member - you tried to offend me in some manor with this post, no member does that to another member here without ramifications. You and I have known each other for years now, and because I tell you to chill with your ever growing confrontational personality, you only look ignorant to what "Might sound like a red-neck slur" aimed at me. But I'll tell you what, I have met many of the people you mentioned in your post traveling around and all were hard working people, trying to make a living in a competitive field. You could call me a tailor park owner any day of the week and I surely would take no offense from it.

You speak of diverse cultures and then can't understand the housing options that people in the US including trailers, modular, etc. According to where you go many are nicer than others, the US has its poor and those whole are handicapped and unable to purchase anything fancier - they are often homeless, even in a great country like ours. Sadly, so much of the country cannot afford larger homes on bigger property, but not all American's are that fortunate. I look at myself Mick as very blessed and never does a single day go by that I don't "Praise God for his blessings on us" so many, throughout our land people are hurting, don't you dare put down Americans who aren't milking the system, but supplying housing on their land for those who need it. Trailer Parks Mick are not just for SECTION 8 WELFARE as you seem to think it is - not here, maybe where you come from. But about calling me a term that you felt was offensive toward me.

You weren't provoked to say something that YOU BELIEVE would insult me , and you said it maliciously. Our members don't do that to each other - You are being warned officially that your character as of late has become confrontational and you should take the time to stay on subject and away from name calling and such.

I'll see you in Ventrilo if you have any other things YOU'D like to call me Mick.







« Last Edit: January 20, 2010, 08:40:24 AM by beemaster » Logged
Scadsobees
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« Reply #38 on: January 20, 2010, 09:07:17 AM »

I'm still a little confused...you can throw money at people and it won't do them any good.  You can build them a house, and they'll run it to the ground.  You can build them cities, and they'll turn them into slums.

If they don't want to work.  Help is just that, a hand to pull somebody off the ground.  Then they've got to stand and walk themselves. Some people need a little more help getting steady before they can balance.

But we're talking about the people that when you aren't there propping them up all the time, they complain and moan about how horrible things are and fall back over because they won't use the muscles in their legs.

I did get offended, Mick, when you criticized our response to NO (because we aren't there propping these people up?) and criticized our border efforts (easy to do when you are a giant island hundreds of miles from other land!!).  And then called us a lazy bunch.

Rick

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« Reply #39 on: January 20, 2010, 07:13:05 PM »

I'm ending this post, it is so far off topic and I'm also not happy with Reinbeau's name calling of Mick either, can he be ignorant and judgmental without being a fool, I think so - calling him a fool was uncalled for more than the preceding words.

Please people, if you don't want to follow someone's posts, keep it to yourself or discuss it with the person in PM, not air-out opinions in the forum.
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