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Author Topic: Haiti  (Read 4948 times)

Offline mick

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Haiti
« on: January 14, 2010, 03:08:58 AM »
I find it somewhat disturbing to see in the media that the US Govt seems to have reacted to this tragedy quicker than it did for Katrina.


Offline Bee Happy

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Re: Haiti
« Reply #1 on: January 14, 2010, 03:53:18 AM »
Sad - Katrina was a mess because the state guard was supposed to be called forth by their respective governors (they never did) Fema's help was also supposed to be asked for - a little bit of constitutional complexity that could have been easily avoided if the local and state authorities had a clue what they were supposed to do in an emergency. but the "point-your-finger-at-Bush-because-you-screwed-up" tactic had its desired effect. Bush and FEMA got the blame for katrina rescue and aftermath being a clusterfoxtrot.
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Offline kathyp

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Re: Haiti
« Reply #2 on: January 14, 2010, 12:37:43 PM »
bee happy is right.  mick, almost everything you saw on the news about katrina was BS.  even NGOs like mine were kept out in the beginning by incompetent and corrupt local "leadership".  FEMA is supposed to be a coordinating agency for national disaster.  it is not a 1st responder agency and even if it were, the state still has to ask for help.  katrina was a charlie foxtrot, but not at the federal level. 

it was a perfect chance for the left to blame bush.
.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline David LaFerney

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Re: Haiti
« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2010, 01:09:05 PM »
bee happy is right.  mick, almost everything you saw on the news about katrina was BS.  even NGOs like mine were kept out in the beginning by incompetent and corrupt local "leadership".  FEMA is supposed to be a coordinating agency for national disaster.  it is not a 1st responder agency and even if it were, the state still has to ask for help.  katrina was a charlie foxtrot, but not at the federal level. 

it was a perfect chance for the left to blame bush.

I agree. It's just shameful when they exaggerate things and point fingers just to make political hay.  Just Plain Shameful.
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Offline reinbeau

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Re: Haiti
« Reply #4 on: January 14, 2010, 04:35:13 PM »
And it will become perfectly clear, in a few days, that the earthquake in Haiti was actually orchestrated by Cheney, Bush and the Halliburton Machine.

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Offline BeeHopper

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Re: Haiti
« Reply #5 on: January 14, 2010, 05:12:02 PM »
And it will become perfectly clear, in a few days, that the earthquake in Haiti was actually orchestrated by Cheney, Bush and the Halliburton Machine.


Dick sold the H.M. in a yard sale, I believe George Soros has it now, rendering a very poor Nation back to the Stone Age. With the Generosity of the American Citizens, Charities and the US Navy, we can only Hope to bring a little civility to a chaotic environment   :-\ I don't want Obama's Chicago style politics going near Haiti, it's own Gov is already corrupt  :-x

Offline beemaster

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Re: Haiti
« Reply #6 on: January 14, 2010, 06:20:18 PM »
And it will become perfectly clear, in a few days, that the earthquake in Haiti was actually orchestrated by Cheney, Bush and the Halliburton Machine.

I think you'll see Obama Apologizing and taking responsibility as he does with every thing else - as if HIS taking the blame ENDS the need for Janet Napolitano and others from upper management in Obama's Inner Circle - he wants nothing to shake up his chosen leadership.

So  small and select group of people received the speach to memorise and they all VERBATIM told us how everything was handled near perfectly and we swallow the whole thing.

So, everything for the next 3 years will be Obama's fault then swept under the carpet, all just to keep his popularity above Bushes.

My Prediction for 2011: All Americn's on International flights will be held to their chair with a over-head pull down restraint like a rollar coaster and a pee bucket by their feet.

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Offline kathyp

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Re: Haiti-aid
« Reply #7 on: January 14, 2010, 11:56:16 PM »
UPS is apparently offering to send smaller packages to Haiti for free.  unless you know someone there, i do not recommend this as the best way to help.  people are generous, but they send to many things that can not be used.  these things take up space and manpower to sort.  if you wish to help, donate to a reputable charity that is working in the area.

some, like RC allow you to donate to the specific disaster.  that's nice, but if you do that, the money can not be spent on any other disasters.  we had that problem with katrina.  they began the disaster specific donations and then were forced to keep that money from other disasters. 

.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline mick

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Re: Haiti
« Reply #8 on: January 15, 2010, 02:43:08 AM »
Im watching the news hour with Jim Lehrer atm, every man and his dog, including Bill C is telling the world how they are helping and what people should do help. All good, but katrina just sticks in my craw, despite the bleep up at that time.

Boss they say that the terrorist with the bomb in his jocks was a plant. The conspiricy is that he travelled without a passport, was led onto the plane by a pakistani looking bloke, and was filmed the whole time he was on the plane by another dark skinned passenger.

Anyways, look forward to your new Haitian neighbours, coming to a hood near you.


Offline Scadsobees

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Re: Haiti
« Reply #9 on: January 15, 2010, 08:55:03 AM »
I can't imagine the desperateness of the situation for these people.  Piles of dead mothers, fathers, daughters, sons, grandparents laying around. Wounded people in desperate need help.  And growing more desperate because they aren't getting the help they need.

And thousands of willing people to help but no way to get help to those who need it.  I heard that they're telling people not to go down there, there isn't enough jet fuel to get back or space on the ground for supplies.

They need immediate help now, but mostly what they'll need from us is help in the next 5 years.

Rick





Rick

Offline kathyp

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Re: Haiti
« Reply #10 on: January 15, 2010, 12:01:09 PM »
it's a problem with every disaster.  tons of help floods in.  takes time to get organized so people are tripping over each other.  someone has to figure out who is in charge...

it's good that people are so willing to help, but it's really hard to have 1000's of unaffiliated people flooding into an area. 

mick, get over katrina.  if there hadn't been howling democrats on tv, it would not have been spun  the way it was.  i did the mid-west floods in 08. there was more loss and destruction in those flood and tornadoes than katrina.  the difference was that the state and local leaders actually knew what to do and did it.  they didn't wait for the feds to ride in a fix things.
.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline fish_stix

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Re: Haiti
« Reply #11 on: January 15, 2010, 05:40:55 PM »
Yep! And even with Katrina there were worlds of difference between the residents of New Orleans and the residents of neighboring Mississippi and Alabama who were also hammered. The people and govts of MS and AL just went to work after the hurricane and rebuilt. Meanwhile, the New Orleans crowd bugged out on Uncle Sam's dollars and went elsewhere to live while other folks rebuilt their city. Couldn't even get people to come back and help with their own houses. That's what decades of welfare and government provided housing gets for us; a totally dependent and useless segment of society who believe they're entitled to live at the expense of those of us dumb enough to keep working and paying them. Then we elect a Prez and a Congress who are hellbent on enlarging that useless mob of ingrates.

Offline kathyp

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Re: Haiti
« Reply #12 on: January 15, 2010, 05:53:52 PM »
there was a difference in LA.  i was south of NO where Rita hit right after Katrina.  those folks were fantastic.  they worked hard to dig themselves out and by the end of 3 weeks, they were telling us that they didn't need us anymore.  of course, they had housing issues and things that were going to take longer to solve, but they were not waiting around for someone to rescue them. 
.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline doak

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Re: Haiti
« Reply #13 on: January 16, 2010, 12:20:27 AM »
 :'( :'(doak

Offline b reeves

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Re: Haiti
« Reply #14 on: January 16, 2010, 09:40:13 AM »

I blame Bush for one thing, he should of realized Nagin the mayor of NO and the Governor of LA were incompetent. Nagin should be in jail for causing a lot of those people to die, instead they reelect him :?, at least they voted the Governor out, every City and State was given sometimes millions of dollars by the federal Gov. to prepare an emergency plan all they had to do was open the book and follow the instructions and they could not even do that right!
Bob

Offline mick

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Re: Haiti
« Reply #15 on: January 16, 2010, 07:34:52 PM »
it's a problem with every disaster.  tons of help floods in.  takes time to get organized so people are tripping over each other.  someone has to figure out who is in charge...

it's good that people are so willing to help, but it's really hard to have 1000's of unaffiliated people flooding into an area. 

mick, get over katrina.  if there hadn't been howling democrats on tv, it would not have been spun  the way it was.  i did the mid-west floods in 08. there was more loss and destruction in those flood and tornadoes than katrina.  the difference was that the state and local leaders actually knew what to do and did it.  they didn't wait for the feds to ride in a fix things.

Why should I get over Katrina? Forgetting about it before the problems that revealed themselves are fixed for the future just ensures the same will happen again.

This is the very reason why you yanks are stuck with such dreadful governments, too lazy to do anything about it.


Offline kathyp

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Re: Haiti
« Reply #16 on: January 16, 2010, 07:58:10 PM »
i say to get over it because everything you think you know about katrina is wrong.  you want to harp on it, but you have no idea what you are talking about.  almost none of the stories that come out of katrina and be came "known" by all, were accurate.  they are now part of the mythology of katrina.  great stories with little fact to back them.
.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline Bee Happy

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Re: Haiti
« Reply #17 on: January 16, 2010, 08:19:55 PM »

Why should I get over Katrina? Forgetting about it before the problems that revealed themselves are fixed for the future just ensures the same will happen again.

This is the very reason why you yanks are stuck with such dreadful governments, too lazy to do anything about it.
Florida, Texas, Mississippi AND Louisiana are annually in the path of destructive hurricanes, each with a chance of one of them being a major devastator. (I live in Florida) we sometimes have a couple or several pretty destructive ones in a year, sometimes only one mild one; no one has ever seen the kind of antics in Florida as with New Orleans and Katrina; the governors of the other states you never hear about know the drill - as do the local governments (they're supposed to know the drill- it's what they're elected to do) -It's why if you hear anything at all it's something like: "Pensacola Florida had the crap kicked out of it in a hurricane, clean up is already moving like clockwork."  The governor mobilizes the National guard Before the hurricane makes impact at all, FEMA is placed on notice by the state government PRIOR to landfall (our constitution places jurisdictional limits on federal powers - but all the states have to do is ask for help - they're allowed to do that in advance if it looks like it will be needed.)
The city Mayor of New Orleans failed miserably in Providing transportation out of New Orleans - Colossal failure - (Remember the pictures of all those school buses in 1-1/2 meters of water? Parked in neat little rows? - The city Mayor can commandeer them to evacuate anyone who can be coerced to leave - as far as I know you can't arrest people to force them to evacuate anymore - if that power was available to him he darn well should have used it).  The Louisiana governor Failed to mobilize the Guard, She failed to ask for Federal assistance (Until way the hell after).  Whether the local governments let those poor people rot in misery for the sake of making the Bush Administration look bad or it's just another case of the political brilliance of the democrats knowing how to crap in their own knickers and blame someone else for putting it there I will never be sure.
 Mick we aren't lazy - we're stupid - we keep falling for the same Political misdirection and trickery.  Our emergency system works well as long as the people in it understand how it operates.
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Offline kathyp

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Re: Haiti
« Reply #18 on: January 16, 2010, 08:49:20 PM »
one other thing to remember.  the feds gave NO money year after year to maintain the levee system.  they used the money for everything but.  right after the hurricane i was able to pull up one levee report.  the money on the report had been used for a park on top of the levee.  i doubt the park added to the safety.

it is also worth remembering that SH.  no matter what the precautions or the plan, bad things happen.  if the people and their leaders fail to have a plan for the aftermath, and they fail to execute that plan, who is to blame?  people have the right not to evacuate.  if they make that choice, they live with the consequences of the choice.  my parents did not evacuate when the fires were coming.  i would have been sad if they had burned in their home, but the blame would have been on them.
.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline Brian D. Bray

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Re: Haiti
« Reply #19 on: January 16, 2010, 10:21:33 PM »
Quote
My Prediction for 2011: All Americn's on International flights will be held to their chair with a over-head pull down restraint like a rollar coaster and a pee bucket by their feet.

More like: "Bite on your pen while I insert this catheter.  I fully expect future airline meals to be IV's on flights of more than 6 hours, but then sometimes we need airline meals, and catheters between gate departure and takeoff.
Life is a school.  What have you learned?   :brian:      The greatest danger to our society is apathy, vote in every election!