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Author Topic: Vented Inner Cover  (Read 11474 times)
Finski
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« Reply #40 on: January 11, 2010, 09:49:57 PM »

.
there is a  big debate, which is the best insulation material in inner cover. They are many. If you find a good, no reason to change it off.

When you put your hand under insulation, you feel how warm the cover is. So without insulation valuable heat escapes. The heat is made from honey. It is an expencive fuel.
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rdy-b
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« Reply #41 on: January 11, 2010, 09:57:23 PM »

            With this system 20 kg sugar per hive is enough to get hives over winter from September to April and I need not worry about they condition. There are perhaps 5 kg honey/hive  with that 20 kg sugar

************ how many frames going in -and how many frames coming out-RDY-B

En käytä turvatarkastus alhaalta levyt itse, mitä kerroitte minulle kastepisteen oikein nyt jos pepole käyttö turvatarkastus alhaalta aluksella ne ovat aina kastepisteen mehiläisiä ei korjata tätä paljon kosteutta
« Last Edit: January 11, 2010, 10:09:12 PM by rdy-b » Logged
Finski
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« Reply #42 on: January 12, 2010, 12:49:07 AM »

       

************ how many frames going in -and how many frames coming out-RDY-B


Summer - winter ?? do you mean? - minimizing for winter?

In summer I have 3 langtroths + 4-5 mediums in hive tower.
For  winter I try to get them to be in 2 brood box but normally half of yeard is in one box and half in 2 box. Now I have 30 hives. No nucs.


If hives are weak in summer like 4 box, I join them for main yield : three 4 box hive --->  2 six box hives.
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Finski
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« Reply #43 on: January 12, 2010, 12:55:37 AM »

.
You asked about pink foam?

We have in Finland blue foam.

I have used it as summer cover but bees destroy it soon.
For winter insuation it need to be 5 cm / 2" thick.
Otherwise it forms condensate water with insulated brood box.
Cover must have the best insulation. Then it does not condensate moisture.- Look windows why they become misty...
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Finski
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« Reply #44 on: January 12, 2010, 09:09:52 AM »

.
Summary  about Gautsho's system:

Gautsho writes:

Is the hole in the center for feeding?"  The hole in the center is for ventilation, for feeding and for observation.

"Do you put this on in the summer months only? or is it used year round?"

I use it year round in conjunction with my screened bottom board to assist in ventilation.  In the warm weather I can still take a peek through the top if I want, I can still feed them if I want but most important it is for VENTILATION.

**********
Here it is said well, how the cover works.

My opinion is that the hives has too much ventilation. A mesh floor and a huge upper hole in summer.

In winter Run Apiaries use 2 inch insulation board.

*********

When I put too early a super over the hive, it takes one week that bees are able to occupie it.
At nights and in rainy days bees make cluster on brood area to keep them warm. They retriet from peripheria of hives to keep the hart warm.

If bad weather continues over 2 weeks, bees are not able to keep brood warm and often some part get a chalkbrood.

Gautzo, you have a little bit missunderstanding how that cover works.

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gaucho10
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« Reply #45 on: January 12, 2010, 09:35:31 AM »

Finski,

"Here it is said well, how the cover works.
My opinion is that the hives has too much ventilation. a mesh floor and a huge upper hole in summer.
In winter Run Apiaries use 2 inch insulation board."

You are right that the hive could have "too much ventilation".  That all depends where you live on the planet.  If you live in a mild climate then I don't think it is a concern.

First of all my (SBB) screened bottom board has a tray that slides underneath to control the air flow.  I usually keep it on through most of the winter.

During the summer months here in New England the ventilated inner cover that I have works great, I think.  If there is bad weather (rain/cold) you could still insulate the VIC with foam.  During the winter you could also insulate the VIC with foam.  I wrap my hives with 1-3/8" (corrected 1/12/10) foam laminated with aluminum paper.  If you look at the picture on page two you can see that the foam is taped over my hives.  Inside the VIC you can cut this same foam and place it around the walls of the VIC, similar to what the Honey-Run-Apiaries design has.  The aluminum wrapped foam does not get destroyed by the bees because it is protected by aluminum.  You can also fill the inside of the VIC with absorbing material as many people do.  With my new design, which has the upper vent hole above and within the VIC, you now have an air flow through the VIC which allows the absorbing material to absorb the moisture.  This is what I am doing with my second VIC I just built.

This new design also includes a rabbet on top so that I can hang frames for the summer.  If I want to hang frames during the winter I can place the frames in the center where I would usually have the honey bottle but I would not use it during the winter for frame feeding because I don't think the bees would come up during cold weather.  In a milder area they might.  I have the honey bottle right now in the center hole and insulation material around without sealing the front vent hole.

Like I mentioned earlier, if you don't like the amount of airflow through the side screened vents you can make "flaps" or covers so that you can regulate the amount of air flow through the VIC sides.  During the winter you can keep the solid laminated foam insulation.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2010, 07:21:49 PM by gaucho10 » Logged

My favorite comedy program used to be Glenn Beck--The only thing is that after I heard the same joke over and over again it became BOOOORING.....

People who have inspired me throughout my life---Pee-wee Herman, Adolph Hitler, George W. Bush, Glenn Beck.
Notice I did not say they were people who I admire !!!
Natalie
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« Reply #46 on: January 12, 2010, 09:35:40 AM »

Hi Rich, I was wondering where you have been, now I know.
The mad inventor has been working in his garage! grin
Congratulations on your new design, I think its great!
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gaucho10
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« Reply #47 on: January 12, 2010, 09:40:30 AM »

Hi Natalie,

I have been busy with my pencil in my mouth my glasses hanging off my nose and scratching my messed up hair calculating my design over my work bench.  OK...everything is true except for the messed up hair...I don't have any.
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My favorite comedy program used to be Glenn Beck--The only thing is that after I heard the same joke over and over again it became BOOOORING.....

People who have inspired me throughout my life---Pee-wee Herman, Adolph Hitler, George W. Bush, Glenn Beck.
Notice I did not say they were people who I admire !!!
Finski
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« Reply #48 on: January 12, 2010, 10:23:01 AM »

.
Sounds perfect
It is better to me to concentrate to Canadian mining stocks

grin
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gaucho10
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« Reply #49 on: January 12, 2010, 10:42:17 AM »

Hey Finski,

Sometime around the 1860's here in the USA some guy by the name of William Seward decided to spend $7,000.000 on an icebox.
People thought he was crazy but he was proved right.  He purchased what we now call the State of Alaska.  So if you want to try "Canadian Stocks".......you never  know!?!?!?   grin evil
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My favorite comedy program used to be Glenn Beck--The only thing is that after I heard the same joke over and over again it became BOOOORING.....

People who have inspired me throughout my life---Pee-wee Herman, Adolph Hitler, George W. Bush, Glenn Beck.
Notice I did not say they were people who I admire !!!
Finski
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« Reply #50 on: January 12, 2010, 12:28:45 PM »

.
You have still those Stewards there   shocked

http://www.moonshop.com/

You too can be the proud owner of a property on the Moon!
The ultimate novel gift for yourself or a loved one.
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gaucho10
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« Reply #51 on: January 12, 2010, 07:26:07 PM »

Wow Finski,

How on earth did you ever come across that web page?  I took a quick look at it but was afraid to catch some type of virus if I went into it.  I can't believe that such a website actually exists. shocked

Anyways.......I am now in the process of trying to measure temperatures in three different hives.  One hive has my original ventilated inner cover as originally designed.  The second has my new design without insulation and the third has the new design with 1-3/8" of foam insulation backed with aluminum.  I will attempt to take interior temperatures of the upper brood chamber of all three and the inside temperatures of the ventilated inner covers.  The current temperatures at night are 5 to 25 deg. F.  Lets see what kind of results will be obtained.
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My favorite comedy program used to be Glenn Beck--The only thing is that after I heard the same joke over and over again it became BOOOORING.....

People who have inspired me throughout my life---Pee-wee Herman, Adolph Hitler, George W. Bush, Glenn Beck.
Notice I did not say they were people who I admire !!!
rdy-b
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« Reply #52 on: January 12, 2010, 08:16:34 PM »

gacho10-what is the strength of these colonies-are they equal- cool RDY-B
and also can you give DEWPOINT temp -should be on weather forcast
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wd
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« Reply #53 on: January 12, 2010, 08:41:03 PM »

.
You have still those Stewards there   shocked

http://www.moonshop.com/

You too can be the proud owner of a property on the Moon!
The ultimate novel gift for yourself or a loved one.


phew, a few years back, offers for property on the moon arrived in email, haven't seen an actual website ... Amazing! Now it's all about winning lotto's and inheritance funds in that particular email account. I have no idea how they found my address. never gave it out. Good luck on moon property!

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gaucho10
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« Reply #54 on: January 12, 2010, 09:20:10 PM »

rdy-b,

"gacho10-what is the strength of these colonies-are they equal- cool RDY-B
and also can you give DEWPOINT temp -should be on weather forcast"


All three colonies were very strong going into winter.  Out of three colonies, the two outside ones still appear to be strong.  The one in the center appears to be weaker.  I can't see the cluster on the center one because they are away from the center hole.  They appear to be on frames 1,2,3 and 4.  The other two hives are clustered in the center feeding on the honey bottles.  The one in the center which I can't see I can only judge by looking at the wax capings accumulating on the SBB tray which I check every other day.  They also have a honey bottle but are not feeding from it.  That center colony is the one I placed insulation in the ventilated inner cover.

The following information is what I got from the weather map in my area:  I have a hard time understanding relative humidity and dew point.

Wind chill=10 deg. F
Humidity=52%
Dew Point=1 deg. F

That is today's weather and it has been so for approximately 3 days
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My favorite comedy program used to be Glenn Beck--The only thing is that after I heard the same joke over and over again it became BOOOORING.....

People who have inspired me throughout my life---Pee-wee Herman, Adolph Hitler, George W. Bush, Glenn Beck.
Notice I did not say they were people who I admire !!!
rdy-b
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« Reply #55 on: January 12, 2010, 09:55:28 PM »

OK-keep the data and coralte with the inside temps you are taking-hard data  Brian
will shed some light on the VIC performance in varying conditions  Wink kep the data coming - Smiley RDY-B
looking good
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Finski
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« Reply #56 on: January 13, 2010, 12:46:59 AM »

.
gaucho10 , I hope that you need not to give a report:" surgical operation succeeded but the customer died".

I have speeded up 7 years spring build up electrict heating + pollepatty. Last spring I ahde 2 hives where upper entrance was closed and seemengly hives had concensation moisture in corners and in the gap of cover and box.  BUT the brooding was huge in both hives. Upper boxes were warmer than in other hives and the brood area spreaded much wider than in other hives. I had 25 hives.

But If I keep open the upper entrance in cleansing flight, bees remember teir entranace and I cannot shut it any more. When they make their flyings, in cold weather they have not time to search another entrance if yhe original is closed.

However, my 7 years experience is that during spring bild up the heat is very important to bees and the greatest advantage take the biggest colonies.

+17C is the temp where bees start to ventilate the hive when heating. Under that they take advantage from heating cable.

*************

I look the need of ventilation from the number of ventilating bees,
When warm air rises up, it stays there and bees may control it.
If there is much opening, bees cannot control the air flow.




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« Last Edit: January 13, 2010, 01:02:42 AM by Finski » Logged

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gaucho10
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« Reply #57 on: January 13, 2010, 01:06:05 AM »

Finski,

I started this thread for the interest of anyone on this forum who would be interested in following, including myself.  I personally like to experiment with things.  Unless this topic becomes objectionable to anyone, I plan to report on my findings regardless of the outcome. 
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My favorite comedy program used to be Glenn Beck--The only thing is that after I heard the same joke over and over again it became BOOOORING.....

People who have inspired me throughout my life---Pee-wee Herman, Adolph Hitler, George W. Bush, Glenn Beck.
Notice I did not say they were people who I admire !!!
Finski
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Posts: 3928

Location: Finland


« Reply #58 on: January 13, 2010, 01:10:26 AM »

.
In summer bees  need a huge ventilation if they get a good nectar flow.
If ventilation is not enough, part of bees stop working and  make a beard
on the outer wall of the hive.

So, during main yield season lower main entrance in widely open.
Others have the whole bottom open with mesh floor  - very strange to me, because main opening is enough.

When I live in capital city, I am not setupping entrances all the time. Weather may change all the time and nights are very cool compared to days.

So, be carefull with those upper ventilation holes, if you need honey. If you just keep bees, it is same what you do with them. Many beekeepers love to calculate mites.
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Finski
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« Reply #59 on: January 13, 2010, 01:18:14 AM »

Finski,

I started this thread for the interest of anyone on this forum . 

Yes, I see that you are interested many kind of challenging things in nature.
Your animals tell it to me. I love to make many kindf of experiment just to see, how things are.

New thing is to me how to cultivate button mushrooms. I found huge Agaricus mushrooms in the middle of main road lawn.  I have made some steps forward to understand how they grow in the lawn.
The biggest diameter of the mushroom was the length of A4 paper.  (=button mushroom!). The taste was good.
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