Vertical wire foundation- add horizontal wire or use pins?

[Delmer]

Last year I used a prewired (vertically) wax foundation and pins.  I did not seem to have any trouble with it as far as warping or comb breaking from the topbar- but I did not harvest any honey this year so I didn't get a chance to run any frames thru an extractor to see how they'd do. 

I'm picking up two nucs this spring and wondering if wiring the frames horizontally is overkill? 

thanks
Danny

[Two Bees]

I don't think that wiring horizontally is overkill.  Putting the pins in the end bars doesn't work either.  The bees will eat the wax foundation out around the pins, leaving the foundation with no side support.

[Delmer]

Thanks

So are pins worth putting in the sides at all?   I have two deeps with pins in all 20 frames and they seemed to do fine this summer-  I'm a little concerned about extracting next year-  like you said mine ate some of the wax around the pins.(although the comb was pretty solid in the frame) I have no idea if they will add to those frames this year or leave them alone.

[Michael Bush]

All wire and pins were designed to do was keep the foundation straight and keep it from sagging until it is drawn.  If the foundation is staying straight, you're  doing well.  If not, then I'd add more support...

[Two Bees]

Just to add to what MB said, wiring will also help keep the wax foundation from curling out of the frame during hot summer heat and it helps against blowouts when extracting.

[Delmer]

For the frames that only have pins -  is there a way to prevent the comb from 'blowouts'?  The extractor I have allows two frames to be spun at a time.  Is it worth trying to re-wire something before the season gets going?  Or is it more work than necessary.

thanks

[kathyp]

once the comb is drawn, you won't have to much trouble with blowouts.  the pins keep the foundation straight until it's drawn out.  i have used both.  wire is nice, but pins work pretty well most of the time. every once in a while, i have one sag.  probably operator error . i have also had wired foundation break when it's not drawn out.  the bees usually repair it ok.  the easiest thing is foundationless in my experience.

[Greg watkevich]

I am planning on going with foundationless frames from Kelly and a hrizontal crossbar with horizontal wires.  This might be overkill but want to insure a the comb is drawn straight.
Greg Watkevich

[Michael Bush]

It is overkill.

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesfoundationless.htm

[Scadsobees]

Once the foundation is drawn out and attached on at least 3 sides, it will extract ok.  You still have to watch it and take it easy, and sometimes it will buckle a little bit, but nothing the bees can't fix.

Wires have their own drawback as well, in my opinion, the bees often don't like them in there and will leave certain areas around them empty.

[kedgel]

I have always wired my foundation horizontally and have never had them avoid it.  However, I'm thinking that it may be over-kill after I extracted from some comb from a cut-out that I mounted in a frame.  They glued it in so well it didn't fly out when I spun it.  If you don't go crazy with too much speed, they will likely be just fine with just the usual wired foundation.

Kelly